Steve, you and I have a 3 page argument on my very first thread (starting around pg 7) about how pathetic and scared I was for not leaving my H outright when his EA shifted to a PA. (which I knew was going to happen and it did just as I thought it would, just like his whole A) When I told you I was neither scared nor a door mat and that your line in the sand is not the same as my line in the sand you gave me a lot of push back. I was already in a pretty vulnerable place and what you said really hurt me, but I don't get sad or beat myself up when I'm hurting. I get angry. And thankfully I have had enough therapy in my life at that point that I could put the anger into good use and I really sat with what you were saying. At the same time I was getting hit IRL with an IC who was pushing me to leave or kick him out and a person in my life who was dropping not so subtle hints who eventually ramped up to telling me outright I had no self esteem and completely lacked any kind of self respect for standing for my MR. Honestly the whole thing for me was helpful. It helped me to really find my way to why I was really standing, and learn what I could live with, with other people judging my decisions.
That's the thing about A's when the world knows. If you reconcile your spouse stops looking like the loser and then you do. Unless they are a highly empathetic and knowledgeable person who understands how nuanced and how much work both of you need to put into the MR to get to that point, the person who stays looks like and idiot. That is the one and only thing about recon that is harder than D.
LH, as far as Steve saying recon is harder. I really don't think that ever happened, but he is very, very often the reality check for people explaining that recon comes with it's own set of problems. Which it does. I've done both. I'm in the process of both. I don't know how I should phrase it. We're still piecing this MR back together. But in any case they both effing sukkk. They both hurt. They both involve an enormous mental and emotional load. The only thing that I can really say recon has the advantage over the D is the money. My god D is expensive. IC, and MC and all that comes with recon isn't cheap either, but that's an investment into yourselves and your future, but D, it's like just handing paycheck after paycheck directly to your L, your ex, sometimes your ex's L and your only payout is that once it's done it's done.
As far as this spat, personally both of you have had your serious jerk moments with me. Both of you have been incredibly kind to me. Both of you have challenged my thinking. And I think I've given both of you food for thought. Because of that I think both of your voices are super important here. Especially for LBHs and I think the juxtaposition of your two opinions is usually something really good for a person who is trying to find their footing in this mess. I do think the delivery could be better from both of you sometimes. And I do think that both of you let your personal feelings and convictions color what you say to people in a way that can be counter productive sometimes. Unique voices are important here but if you see something creating a visceral reaction in you, you need to realize you're a little too close to give healthy help and check out. Much like when I see an LBH who is a no fault LBH. I stay away. Because I'll say some mean things that don't help anybody.
I personally think Steve has come a long way since I've been here. He's softened a lot. He's gotten much better at gauging how what he says may affect a person's feelings before just saying, but yes still a little holy roller for my taste. But that's Steve.
I also think LH has come a long way with how he views WAS/WS. It's been a journey, and as black and white as you see things LH you've evolved, become more empathetic, and a little better at the 30,000 ft view. I think that's a feat.
I'm also on the don't just stop interacting because you get under each other's skin. We've had some really good convos because of this. Not just you two, but LH and I, and others.
Every body here has a thing. We just do. But I think there'd probably be a little less infighting if there was a little more introspection before hitting that post button.
