Quote: If a person can't see the long term gratification that a lot of hard work will produce, they'll put in the minimum or sporadic effort and hope for long term effect.
so if a person admits to realizing that things are much better the next day after some time is spent together and still don't bother to keep it going by making the effort to spend time together often what's their excuse?
Quote: Because an extramarital relationship is no relationship at all. At least he figured that one out.
hey at least he took her out to luch or spend a few afternoons a week just hanging out with her (that is if infact he's being honest about it never being a pa in it's 2 1/2 year duration) wich is a lot more than I get. So it seems to me an extramarital relationship is more of a relationship than a marital one...hey he took her to her cancer treatments and yet let me his pregnant wife go for post due date stress tests and ultrasounds ALONE!
Quote: If your characterization of your H as a conflict avoider is correct, is there a way of working with that? Seems to me that the DB thing to do is to avoid conflict yourself. It also seems to me that this is what you've been doing. It looks like doing this has got you part way there, but you still want more.
sure it's gotten me to less arguments in the house but to be honest by simply playing his game of avoiding conflict I don't think it's bringing us closer infact it has only served to push us (well at least me) further apart.
Quote: Have you considered counceling for yourself?
I was in c myself during seperation and to be honest I think the c was a bit worried that h WOULD come home and nothing would change...he was right. I stopped going because I made the mistake of using that c with h when he finally decided to go with me after I myself called a d lawyer. We stopped going because even there h wasn't willing to face anything and wanted to pretend like life was just grand. If I even mentioned anything negative h would act totally surprised and give a where did this come from, or who have you been talking to, or is that your new word.
Quote:
The people on the BB are great, and I still believe in DB, but after awhile, all of the DB techniques seem to become more of the same.
and this m seems to be more of the same...aparently no lessons learned other than the lesson I learned that if I want to be at least somewhat happy I'd better just stiffle it and shut up, don't ask for anything, put on a happy face and be his damn cheerleader or else he'll go find someone else who will.
LL, When you ask H for what you want, how do you do it?
Here is what I used to do (and still do sometimes). I would tell H what I needed from him in our R and then sit back and wait for him to do it. After all, I had been clear when we were talkin and he is a grown man with a brain, so what is the holdup?
Now, here is what I do differently. I talk to him and state my needs. Then I remind him a few days later, in a loving and sometimes joking way. If he doesn't do it, I will TELL him "Hey put down the dishes and come in here and sit with me." If that doesn't work, then yeah I do get pissy with him.
I think that we had gotten into a pattern where he was always waiting for the ax to fall and I was always waiting for him to screw up. Even when we BOTH had the best of intentions to keep a PMA, we secretly sat back and waited for the other to "do their thing". (which for him would be keeping busy with everything BUT me, and for me would be sitting back and waiting for him to screw up so I would have an outlet for the frustrations that had built over the course of the day)
Like I said, we still do this a LOT. But it is getting better now that I have taken a more active role. Yes it sucks having to tell him what to do (put down the dishes) but since he is a conflict avoider, and I am the biggest source of potential conflict in his life, it is far too easy for him to avoid me. Not because he doesn't enjoy me, but because he has come to fear being around me because he knows that he has probably screwed up somewhere. So I nip it in the bud and tell him what to do. He seems relieved to have a "map" to follow in which he knows that his actions will be pleasing to me. I still find it hard to believe that after all these years of me telling him to leave the dishes--that I will do them--that he STILL does them and thinks that I will find it loving!
The only area in which this doesn't work is sex but that is because I refuse to do it in this area. I am stubbornly holding out for his desire and I'm sure you know how that goes! Sporadic doesn't even cut it...
Regarding the date nights, is there any way that you could make it a team effort? Such as, H you arrange the night and I will arrange the childcare. The date is this Saturday night, starting at 5:30.
Regarding his need for WOA, how does he respond when he gets them? Does it make him feel happier and more loved? If so, then you might have to suck it up and just do it. This is a hard one for me to remember and THANKFULLY my husband has email at his work so that I can send him "thanks for working so hard for us" emails, otherwise it just would not occur to me to say these things!
Well these were my thoughts this morn. Kids have adopted a new wakeup time...6 a.m. So my thoughts do not have the clarity that they normally do, LOL.
LL, I haven't given up hope that there is a way to deal with this. I'm still racking my brain trying to think of a creative idea...will let you know if I have one.
I did want to address something Andy said about backslides here on the BB. I find that with all the information at my fingertips...while actively trying to address my old habits...I STILL slip into old habits without realizing it.
How much harder it must be for your Husband, LL.
Honeypot said:
Not because he doesn't enjoy me, but because he has come to fear being around me because he knows that he has probably screwed up somewhere. So I nip it in the bud and tell him what to do. He seems relieved to have a "map" to follow in which he knows that his actions will be pleasing to me.
I can relate to this well.
I've noticed lately that I'll talk to husband about something that is bothering me. And I can now see the anxiety in his eyes that he doesn't know how to respond. Actually, come to think of it, he has asked me a couple of times what response I am looking for from him.
Sometimes I don't know what I need from him...so we are learning together.
I praise him when something he does/said helps me.
I guess, Honey, we are looking for that map together. I appreciate your words...as it brought up to my concious something that has been tugging at me.
I wish I could give you more than a Hug, LL...will keep thinking.
instead of making contious idle threats that one day when he suddenly has the time to spend with me I wont be around or have the desire...just stop being around and available. My only problem with that is..in the past when I have taken such action, though it makes my life fuller it does little to change the m sit as he just takes it as a relief "ah well she's being entertained now I don't have to feel any guilt or hear anything about not spending time with her".
what I can't stand is the fact that over a year later and still when I am enjoying myself with the kids (like the water balloon fight we just had) I am suddenly brought to thoughts of..."h misses out on a lot by working so much" only then to be reminded of bad thoughts "yeah right LL, you thought he was missing out by working so much before and where did that get you? he was spending his afternoons with ow"
ugh!!
I know that such thoughts wont go away if I were to give up and say forget it I just can't get over it but how the heck do you other survivors do it?
my guess would be that things are different than they were before and that you are getting reassurances from your spouses while I for whatever reason am not.
I have never seen you in a funk for so long. A couple of days at most in the dumps, then you feel more positive about the R because you reconnected in some way. I sense that he is not making any effort to connect with you which has lead to this continued frustration. I'm concerned that you are putting his needs before yours and the kids.
You deserve happiness and thoughtful companionship at the very least.
I don't think I've ever responded to you but I felt I needed to tonight. I haven't read all of your thread, but enough to realize I have the same feelings you have been having.
My sitch is a bit different, but similar in some ways. My H is not home, but my H works tons of hours. My H has not tried to reconnect with me, but seems to think that by coming by the house once a week or so to do the family thing is enough.
Many improvements have been made, but right now I feel that I am backsliding big time in my DB efforts. I feel as you do, is this all there is? I have no intention of being the WAS. I have made it clear to my H that I will not be the one to end this mess first. I will not do his dirty work.
But is this all there ever will be with my H? I don't truly know. But I keep standing for this marriage whether my H wants me to or not.
I just want you to know I feel what you are feeling and I understand the questions you ask about what are lives should be. I wish I had some answers for you, or for myself for that matter.
Take care
JL
Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but in the moments that take our breath away...
I know that such thoughts wont go away if I were to give up and say forget it I just can't get over it but how the heck do you other survivors do it?
my guess would be that things are different than they were before and that you are getting reassurances from your spouses while I for whatever reason am not.
LL
Ah, LL...I'm sorry you're having such a hard time of late...
As for the above...some days I boldly talk back to the reminding voice in my head and other days I let the thought wash over me and other days it's hard to ignore...but you know what you know and what you can't know and can't control...so you just reground yourself back into the moment.
Sounds like some of these thoughts come for you during the good times (me too!) so getting back into the "now" brings you back to a happier place.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Ok so I do believe long long ago when I first came to this bb one of the heading said something like "for people who are tired of complaining about their r's and want to do something to make it better"
well I was tired of complaining and wanted to make things better but find myself still often complaining. ugh!
While my h was a wasband I stopped complaining because...well...what could I complain about...he wasn't my h at the time, didn't live here so there were no complaints...well other than the fact that he wasn't my h at the time.
Upon his initial "wake up" and return...I still had little to complain about...I mean after all if he was calling me "just to call me" or comming over "just to see me" that was fantastic.
I'm not saying that I don't still appreciate when he calls just to say hi to me but admit that I do feel dissapointed when he doesn't. Same applies to his spending time with me (though that doesn't seem to happen in the same manner it did upon his arival home)
what I've noticed is that each time I close up and draw away from him him seems to seek me out, start to complain more about his being busy and stressed, appologizes for being tired...even made the comment "there must be something wrong with me I just want to go to sleep at the end of the day"
So is LL once again saying the sky is not falling? no I'm just saying that I realize that the only way to keep h engaged is to disengage myself and that just feels unnatural to me. I don't understand a r where one party must put up a wall to have the other take notice. I don't want to have these constant feelings that I must retreat from h...I want to love him and express that love not pretend to be aloof so he'll notice me...I want to be noticed when I'm being me.
I obviosly have a lot more in this head of mine that I'd like to say but for now I'll just say that though there's a chance of showers the sun seems to be shining a bit in LL land.
Hey LL, I have been doing a little experiment in my life that you may be interested in. My H is very similar to yours, in that he is wiped out at the end of the day and has nothing left to give me. Also I feel VERY lonely and left behind being here with little kids all day and he can't be bothered to check in with me.
So I have been making the first move, every day. And I force myself to be cheerful and appealing. I hate to say it....as Journey from the SSM forum pointed out, it is very 50's sitcom...but it is working! He is really responding to the new and improved Honey.
So it occurred to me that HE likes to be chased, too. I think that we are actually closer in our wants and needs from each other than opposites, as I had previously thought. It's just that we both want to be chased and seduced. So we sit back and wait for the other to do it and it turns into a mexican standoff. And I end up pissed and even lonelier. He tolerates the standoff MUCH better than I do, but that is his nature.
Have you ever tried anything like that? Make the first move every day in contacting him, and do it cheerfully. Keep the contact going throughout the day, if you are able to. Then give him a cheery greeting when he comes home, etc.
You know, it sounds ridiculous but here's what has happened in the last week in my house. I did this for THREE days with no real change from H. Then on the fourth day he started responding better at night. By the fifth day, HE was calling me first thing in the morning. The weekend arrived and he was fairly attentive (not a small feat in my house). Then yesterday (monday) he emailed me first thing in the morning and when I didn't respond--hadn't checked them--he called to see if I was ok!!
I have no illusions about this lasting forever...been down that road with him...but I do realize the power of my good mood. And boy am I reaping the benefits. He has been so nice and helpful with kids and house, as well as sexually attentive.
Say prayers for me that the experiment continues to work well...
That reminds me, I need to send ol' boy an email this morning before I turn into a total slacker.
