I think I can relate somewhat to your H. most of the men on the bb with waw's or potential waw's can relate to my h...only thing is I wasn't the was h was.
I try not to complain about work, but at the same time, I want my W to know that work is no bed of roses. I understand that..heck I try to avoid and often appologize when there's utter caos going on around here..life is no bed of roses and no one should pretend it is or isn't.
She feels that I've neglected her - much the same way you feel neglected. I've tried very hard to do a 180 on that, and in the process, I've discovered that she was partially right. I could have done more. Obviously - since I'm doing more for her now. SEE?! it can be done!!
I'm speaking of doing more around the house, since my W no longer wants to do anything with me. I used to be somewhat of a couch potato. Work Work work... Go home... flop on the couch... my h does now try to do more around the house..but that's not what I want..infact I often find it insulting as if he's saying (without saying) "you don't do enough look I have to clean up after working all day" what I want is some qt with him.
Sounds like the profile of a workaholic, doesn't it? a yup!
Well, I still have to Work Work work... Go home... But now, instead of flop on the couch, I do dishes... clean up after the kids... and flop into bed. on a good day that is what my h does.
I'm not trying to blow my own horn, LL. My point is that I used to think that I didn't have the energy to do more to help. I was wrong. a man wrong? admitting it? surely I'm hearing things? oh, wait I'm on the bb that's why.
I would still be underestimating my capacities if my W hadn't blown me off. blowing h off doesn't change things...infact another part of the problem is he wont let me blow him off whenever I want to.
I’m not recommending you do the same, LL. On the contrary, I think your H’s complaints are probably a plea for sympathy. I can sympathise but where does it get us? You say you’ve stopped complaining about how his work takes up all his time and energy, so now he’s starting to feel a little more empathy from you.
There comes a time when a guy does stop enjoying his work. There comes a time when he realizes how much it takes him away from family and friends. But this realization doesn’t take away his responsibility to his work, and the conflict between these two things is difficult to deal with. it doesn't take much effort to give a little to the family on a REGULAR BASIS
The worst way to try to deal with this conflict is to complain to someone who will turn it back on you and tell you that it’s your fault, and that it’s affecting your family and friends.
A better way to deal with it is to vent your frustration to someone who cares about you, and empathizes with how it affects you. Maybe even someone who feels the same pressures – as a couple. Not as two individuals. Maybe someone who’s on your side.
D’ya think something might have changed to make him feel this way? honestly I think work has always been a source of frustration for him...I added to the frustration by being frustrated that it took so much out of him...now that I've succumbed and accepted he's a guy who works hard to provide and learned to bite my tounge when it comes to his lack of time and energy for us...he complains to me about it more.
I'm not sure I made my point correctly. Guess I was too wordy.
All I was trying to say was kinda in response to
Quote: I need solutions, answers, attainable goals, direction etc.
and
Quote: since I've stopped complaining to h about how his work takes up all his time and energy...h does nothing but complain about work. If it's not an employee or a peice of equiptment or a customer it's the weather...He just doesn't seem to be enjoying his business wich is pretty sad considering it is the biggest part of his life and takes him away from his family and friends.
What I was trying to say was that I think you've hit on one solution/answer yourself. By not complaining about how his work affects you, you've stopped adding to his frustration.
In the second quote, you were expressing sympathy for him. Not directly to him, but if you're feeling sympathy/empathy, I'm sure it shows.
I know you try to think positively, LL. But it appears to me that you are a little more successful lately, and he's responding (a little anyway).
Quote: I'm speaking of doing more around the house, since my W no longer wants to do anything with me. I used to be somewhat of a couch potato. Work Work work... Go home... flop on the couch... my h does now try to do more around the house..but that's not what I want..infact I often find it insulting as if he's saying (without saying) "you don't do enough look I have to clean up after working all day" what I want is some qt with him.
Ouch!
I need your help, LL (Huh? A man asking for directions? )
My W is a stay-at-home mom. The division of labour in our house was that I brought home the $$, handled the bills. W took care of the home front. That’s an oversimplification, but to make a long story short, that’s the way it was. I worked my butt off with my full time job and a two day plus weekends part timer. As I have admitted before, I could have done more. Apart from laziness (which I would never have admitted to at the time), I thought that if I started doing “her job”, she’d feel insulted. That by doing “her job” it would look like I had to clean up after working all day.
When W started distancing, I asked her what I could do to make her feel special. Her answer was, “housework.” This made no sense to my male-chauvinist-pea-brained mind. My sister explained to me that helping my W with the housework was an acknowledgement of the difficulty of her “job.”
So now, I wash dishes before I put my son to bed. In the morning, I do more dishes, sometimes throw in a load of laundry, maintain the pool, and head off to work.
And now she says I'm passive-agressive, and she doesn't need any help.
I don't think it's a matter of what are you doing wrong but more a matter of what aren't you doing right. Yes yes I know when it comes to us women no matter what you do it's never enough.
I can't speak for your wife because I am not her but I will tell you that I only mind the fact that all of the housework (laundry, cooking, cleaning, childcare etc) falls on my shoulders when h isn't giving me a little of his time. Right now he is too busy to do much more than clean up after himself (in the form of putting his dish in the sink and/or putting the food away after dinner) and helping to put son (I take care of dd) to bed. I understand his lack of time and energy due to the hectic seasonal start of his business but find myself still frustrated.
Occassionally h will go on a little helpful cleaning spree..emptying the small waiste baskets etc. I appreciate it and have told him so but it's not what I want from him. I'd much rather he spend the 15 minutes adoring me or talking to me and then I would happily empty the baskets myself (among other chores).
so what the heck am I saying?
I think what a person wants and needs from their partner depends on who they are.
I want qt and physical affection, throw in some words of affirmation and I'm happy. acts of service? well they're nice and I'll accept them for what they are but I don't need them same goes for gifts...it's more the thought and time that I desire.
basic point for me h doing housework isn't going to do much but get a bit more done around here but isn't going to bring us closer together...unless of course he's helping me clean the shower while we're in it together.
Quote: Occassionally h will go on a little helpful cleaning spree..emptying the small waiste baskets etc. I appreciate it and have told him so but it's not what I want from him. I'd much rather he spend the 15 minutes adoring me or talking to me and then I would happily empty the baskets myself. I want qt and physical affection, throw in some words of affirmation and I'm happy. acts of service? well they're nice and I'll accept them for what they are but I don't need them same goes for gifts...it's more the thought and time that I desire. (among other chores).
Have you said that to H....in those EXACT words???? When H is going on a cleaning spree, is that his way of trying to reach out to you and please you? If you haven't actually TOLD H exactly what would really make you feel better, maybe he really doesn't know and is reaching out in the way he knows best, and when you thank him for it (which I think you should), he will continue to do it again because you have told him you like it. JMHO
thanks for the thoughts but I AM pretty specific with h. I recall saying specifically....I appreciate your help in getting stuff done around here but I'd much rather you left it and instead spent some time with me/us.
Nothin' much going on at my place, more peace than usual, I guess.
Have a sunny day!
Love, Bridget
Hey Bridget,
thanks for the visit it's always nice to hear from you and hey more peace than usual is a good thing aint it!
now for a typical deep thoughts with LL,
I often find myself wondering what's different. I see so many in piecing able to compare how things were during their spouses a to now and other than the obvious differences between now and the seperation I really don't sense much difference.
I don't know exactly what that means. I don't believe that means h is still involved elswhere but I can't say that he is fully involved with me either.
I suppose I just wish that the possitive changes that appeared to be occuring in h during his return would have stayed and continued but it seems they haven't.
Of course most would ask..well what were you doing differently then?
and of course I'd answer...nothing really other than living my own life with not so much regard for him.
I have just about everything a woman could ask for interms of the monotary but feel that something is just missing from this relationship.
perhaps what I feel is just normal but I tend to think not.
I know the answer is not in leaving or finding another to fill that void as so many do, but there's got to be more to marriage than what I'm currently living.
is this all there is? live to pay the bills and make the house and yard look nice?
am I missing something?
am I just an insatiable basket case who doesn't live in reality or is does my h lack the ability to have a truly intimate relationship with anyone?
Thanks for posting to me (with respect to what you - as a woman - want from your marriage).
I had mentioned all of the housework kinda stuff that I'm doing, and you said that what you REALLY want is:
Quote: I want qt and physical affection, throw in some words of affirmation and I'm happy. acts of service? well they're nice and I'll accept them for what they are but I don't need them same goes for gifts...it's more the thought and time that I desire.
Sounds pretty "normal" to me.
Unfortunately for me, my W will not accept physical affection or positive affirmation from me, so I'm left with doing the dishes.
If you're "just an insatiable basket case who doesn't live in reality," then I suppose I fall into the same category. If your H lacks the ability to have a truly intimate relationship, then I suppose the same can be said for my W - at least incapable of having an intimate relationship with me.
But FWIW, I don't believe it's either. I think it's a combination of stress and bad habits.
I know that my own reaction to excessive stress is to go into autopilot. I try to trudge through until the crisis passes. This would probably be a good way of dealing with life's stresses if it were the fact that there's just too damn much stress. There never seems to be a period of relief between crises. So I spent my marriage in crisis mode. It was habit forming.
At the same time, my W was dealing with the crises in her world. I honestly thought we were dealing with our crises – as individuals, and as a couple. But the fact of the matter is, we were both overwhelmed without even knowing it, and W was the first to notice. It wasn’t until a full blown depression “relieved” me of having to react to my own crises. Basically, my entire being said, “Enough!” and I could no longer react to the stress. I couldn’t do anything.
Your H – without even knowing it – is trying to prevent that from happening to him. He tried to “be there” for you when he came back, but the old stresses were still there, as were the same habitual responses to stress. Is he capable of an intimate relationship? I think he is. He just doesn’t know how to do it, or doesn’t think he can.
Quote: But FWIW, I don't believe it's either. I think it's a combination of stress and bad habits.
I'll buy that. However it appeared that h did learn that his habbits were bad and was trying to change them but poof! he seems to have forgotten what he learned. Those bad habbits were learned probably long before I met him...I hate to blame parents but sheesh...his parents are classic conflict avoiders (or rather solution avoiders) fil will only deal with so much and then goes running when things get too emotional..mil?? well let's just say she's spent years at a time not speaking to her sister or locking herself in her room when she's upset. Dealing with issues? don't think h got a good example of that other than as being the boss and laying down the law..trouble is I'm not one of his employees.
Quote: Is he capable of an intimate relationship? I think he is.
sure anythings possible...but let's not forget that the supposed "in love" connection he left for was with a woman who was also married living her own life..so true intimacy??
Quote: He just doesn’t know how to do it, or doesn’t think he can.
or the time or the desire...the motivation??? well a pretty good wife and two great kids, not to mention the damn nice house we live in...but then he's got all that at a distance so...
we are talking about a man who's r with his family is often simply related to business, who only has one friend and that friend didn't even know that he wasn't living here for over 6 months.
He seems very much to be an island...but if someone chooses to be an island or is happy that way why would they take on an extramarital relationship?
Quote: However it appeared that h did learn that his habbits were bad and was trying to change them but poof! he seems to have forgotten what he learned.
Unfortunately, habits die hard.
He tries to develop new habits, and poof! Stress kicks in (my pet theory), or fatigue, or he starts to relax a little. There are a myriad of reasons why a person reverts to old habits. One just has to read about all of the "backslides" on these boards to see that it's a lot of hard work to change old habits.
It's not so much that your H has a lack of motivation. I think it's more a matter of not getting instant feedback/results. If a person can't see the long term gratification that a lot of hard work will produce, they'll put in the minimum or sporadic effort and hope for long term effect.
I'm not quite sure of what exactly a "conflict avoider" is, but I suspect that I'm one. I think it's what attracted me to DB. W thought I always got my way. I thought our decisions were joint decisions. I thought that if something was important to me, I'd "prevail" and I quickly relented on things that were important to her. To me, this was mutual respect. Apparently, things were quite different in W's world, and perhaps my avoidance of conflict made it look like I never conceded to her.
Quote: He seems very much to be an island...but if someone chooses to be an island or is happy that way why would they take on an extramarital relationship?
Because an extramarital relationship is no relationship at all. At least he figured that one out.
I wonder, LL... If your characterization of your H as a conflict avoider is correct, is there a way of working with that? Seems to me that the DB thing to do is to avoid conflict yourself. It also seems to me that this is what you've been doing. It looks like doing this has got you part way there, but you still want more.
The only thing I can think of is to lay on the love and support... Lay a blanket of empathy over him...
I'm not sure that'll get you over the "instant gratification" hump. Have you considered counceling for yourself? Maybe a professional could teach you how to deal with a conflict avoider. I doubt forcing conflict on him would work, but perhaps a C could give you some fresh ideas.
The people on the BB are great, and I still believe in DB, but after awhile, all of the DB techniques seem to become more of the same.
