New here.

[Ready2Change]

I think many guys don't know jack about women.

I completely agree.

May is a wise woman, you should listen to her.

I love reading the post by women here. They are very articulate and I love the way they can elaborate and clarify their thoughts.

The men you are talking to have spent countless years learning about women to reduce the risk of something happening to them again.

I am prepared if it happens again. I have put myself in other posters shoes countless times. The crazy part, I have put other posters into other peoples shoes.


How would I respond to this? How would LH19 respond to this? How would SteveLH respond to this? How would Coach respond to this? AnotherStander, PuppyDogTails, RobX, AllenA, Gucci, Gecco ....

[JosephS]

Just a few quick points

Confidence and arrogance are two different things.

No one took their ball and went home. We are all volunteers doing this to help. No point in stating what 3 other posters have, and some of us can only check every so often.

We all support in our own ways. Some are just more blunt than others. But no way wants to deal with entitlement mixed with arrogance.

I’m glad you’re in therapy. I think that’ll go a long way in making you be the best you, you can be.

You can’t control her, so control yourself. If you’re ok with her having her cake and eating it too, that’s your choice. However, what reason would she have to miss you if she can always just be around you and than be able to go back to her vacation rental. You can’t stop her from coming over, but you can control if you are there or available.

You haven’t posted here before have you? You kind of remind me of Tom H.

[BL42]

Ready2Change,

I have done some things and been completely shocked at how a woman responds. The new behavior had positive results, So It is now part of me.

Care to share any real world examples?

[LH19]

I never met a L who wasn’t arrogant. If we aren’t. We get steamrolled. Anger? Really? Because R2 made a cutting remark?

No. You mentioned it a couple times in your thread.

I also want to work on any anger issues I have. I could be quick to anger on perceived slights.

It’s a trying time for me. I do tend to see jab and anger was a normal way of expressing myself growing up. But while we yelled, we also quickly moved on. I did talk to my IC about the anger thing.

I agree, but I am not sure he has what it takes to do this

.

I’m not seeing anything other than a jab at me. I could be wrong.

You are wrong. Most LBS have difficult implementing DB because it goes against everything they want to do. They want to pursue and try to fix things by showing off there "changes". I use changes in quotes because they are not real RIGHT NOW and these changes are usually either not believed or pi$$ the WS spouse anyway. The hard thing to do is to politely decline the offer and go out at do something fun.

I'm inclined to follow what May22 says. To put it bluntly, she's a woman and I think many guys don't know jack about women.

Could it be that you are going to follow May22 because she suggested to do what you are dying to do? Look I do agree that men in general have a tough time understanding women. But you are dealing with a WAW/WW which is a completely different animal. Timing is everything in these situations and IMO the longer this drags on, the weaker your position becomes. You will compromise, make yourself smaller, trying to meet her needs and then she'll walk all over you.

Joseph, Bent, BL lets cut Mac some slack as you know this is really difficult especially when the advice varies.

[Thornton]

Just my opinion, you can take it or leave it. And if my advice offends you, or feels manipulative, just let me know and I will refrain from posting on your thread.

If you decide to hang out, have dinners, while she goes back to her rental, you are in essence easing her transition into singlehood. I think you are doing yourself a disservice by playing along.

She wanted space, right? Then the most loving thing you can do is respect her wish and give it to her. She is testing out what it's like to not be in a relationship with you (and she may be involved with another man), so.... show her what it's like. Remove yourself, respectfully, from her life. Allow her to wonder about, and miss you.

And while she's seeing what it's like without you, make yourself as attractive as possible. Focus on your issues in therapy, build your body, push yourself outside your comfort zone, explore new things etc. And this can make you extremely attractive to your WAS, or to other women (No, I'm not advocating dating), when and if the time comes for you to get back out there.

You can scour the internet, YouTube etc for advice on how to get your W back and you will see most of the advice is pretty consistent. You have to let her go, in order to get her back. The problem is that letting her go will be the hardest thing you have ever done and it will go against every instinct you have to preserve your marriage. Many people can't do it.

[LH19]

Just my opinion, you can take it or leave it. And if my advice offends you, or feels manipulative, just let me know and I will refrain from posting on your thread.

If you decide to hang out, have dinners, while she goes back to her rental, you are in essence easing her transition into singlehood. I think you are doing yourself a disservice by playing along.

She wanted space, right? Then the most loving thing you can do is respect her wish and give it to her. She is testing out what it's like to not be in a relationship with you (and she may be involved with another man), so.... show her what it's like. Remove yourself, respectfully, from her life. Allow her to wonder about, and miss you.

And while she's seeing what it's like without you, make yourself as attractive as possible. Focus on your issues in therapy, build your body, push yourself outside your comfort zone, explore new things etc. And this can make you extremely attractive to your WAS, or to other women (No, I'm not advocating dating), when and if the time comes for you to get back out there.

You can scour the internet, YouTube etc for advice on how to get your W back and you will see most of the advice is pretty consistent. You have to let her go, in order to get her back. The problem is that letting her go will be the hardest thing you have ever done and it will go against every instinct you have to preserve your marriage. Many people can't do it.

This is great advice and what happened in my situation. On top of that I let my ex-wife wean herself off me after being with me for more than half her life. The very best path is the minute your partner says they want out you smile, say "good luck with that", hand them a box of their stuff, and go live a kick-@ss life of your own. Easier said then done especially when people are telling you that playing happy family is ok.

[Ginger1]

There is no career or profession where arrogance is a prerequisite to success. That’s a very weak excuse . Confidence , yes, arrogance absolutely not. There is actually no situation that arrogance is necessary for success.

[Traveler]

I never met a L who wasn’t arrogant. If we aren’t. We get steamrolled.

To pipe in, I work in the corporate world. I've never hired an attorney who acted arrogantly nor can I recall one of our corporate attorneys displaying arrogance, granted I don't see them daily. They do display confidence. The ones I work with only make salaries in the $200K-$300K range. If what you say is true, and these attorneys all have an inner arrogance that keeps them acting capably and avoiding being steamrolled, they've at least learned not to display it via words or actions to their clients or to legal opposition. If you feel you're in some higher range ($500k+) where it's necessary, perhaps it's worth considering salary vs. quality of life. I think many of us make choices at some point about what and how far we're willing to go to make a living and how much salary we are content with.

[Ready2Change]

I have done some things and been completely shocked at how a woman responds. The new behavior had positive results, So it is now part of me.

Ready2Change, Care to share any real world examples?

I won't be explicit about my interactions in the bedroom, but that is one area. I guess one of the more vanilla things I can share is how my words can turn my lover on. "I desire you" and "you are an amazing lover" are a couple examples. Google "erotic talk" for more.

[McRamone]

I have a few things to update, but I'm currently looking at other resources.

I was reading about the origins of validation and active listening. It apparently started in the therapist-patient dynamic as a way to get the patient to open up about themselves so they could get help.

it was imported into most forms of marriage counseling but there are questions about its effectiveness. ." That's why I am choosing to to work on my emotional intelligence in a marriage. Plus a trained psychiatrist can spot validation and active listening a mile away.

I'm not saying it can't be useful or effective and it certainly has value.