Unsure where we are going

[detachA]

Hi SA,

I'm not going to call you by your handle. I understand you feel that way, but I don't know that that moniker is going to do anything positive for you in the long run.

I'm going to be slightly more forgiving than the guys because I strongly believe everyone needs to DB in their own way, and that mistakes are meant as learning tools. They aren't catastrophes. But I'm also here to reinforce a lot of what they say.

I really appreciate your post wayfarer

You need to detach. You have no way of knowing how "in" she is until she's all in. This is a cat and mouse game that can last ad infinitum if you allow it to. The longer you tie how you feel, and what you want to the day to day roller coaster that she was/is/will be dragging you on the harder it's going to be to for you to emotionally regulate, relax, sleep, eat, care for the kids and yourself, and make an decisions about your life. Detaching isn't about giving up on the MR or your hope for it to make it. It is purely about your survival in this chaos. Do not let her drive the bus you're on. She's already driving the bus of your MR. You need to separate the two as soon as possible.

I really need to read up on how detatch more. I am trying not to initiate any conversation, but to be polite and ready to listen when she talks to me. She seems to have no interest even in looking after the kids at the moment. If I do not put them to bed she lets them sit up till midnight. She spends no time on the kids homework, even though one of them is really struggling in school. I find that I cannot sit idly by with this and devote a lot of time to the kids, which just lets her have more time to go out in the evening. Not sure what to do.

There will be a lot of talk of respect and allowing disrespect, and all of that. My personal opinion is respect is subjective and just the action of cheating is disrespect. So clearly we're already allowing things we normally wouldn't, so where's the line? I don't know that that can be easily defined so what you really need to focus on is your boundaries. What will you engage with and what won't you engage with.

Im going to develop some boundaries and put them up here for feedback.

The reality here is if you stonewalled, you'll have to overcome that at some point but that point would be after recon. Not before. Not engaging isn't stonewalling. Not engaging is refusing to be dragged along for the ride. This is a pick your battles moment. You are well within your rights to say "I'm not doing this right now," when she wants to talk about the R or a D or her A(s) or all the things she'd like you to change, whatever. I was in an IHS for a while, while my H was having an active EA/PA. Once I was able to start working on detachment I lived my life parallel to his. He was my roommate, and a co-parent when he could muster the will to do so. I never stopped loving him. I never gave up on our MR. But I wasn't going to be his pal, and I certainly wasn't going to be his wife. I gave myself the physical and mental space to not engage if I didn't want to. I was in the MBR alone. I was in there alone until he asked permission to return. And he didn't even dare to do so until he was sure he was all in. I had told him the rules from the beginning. He was welcome back anytime so long as no one else was in that bedroom with us. I also only engaged in conversations that were about the kids, bills and/or running the household, he would occasionally rope me in in MR and D talks but it was rare and if I could get out of it I would. Those were some of my lines in the sand. The MBR I articulated, the space I required from him wasn't a conversation we had I just did it. Boundaries will run the gamut. I strongly suggest you read through that thread regularly.

I hear what you are saying. But I haven't been in the MBR for one year and I stonewalled for the majority of that time. If I detach too much will it not just appear that I am stonewalling again. We have had next to no communication this whole year until around 3rd September. Currently we are talking most days, kids, her job and a few other things. I am mostly listening and validating. Trying not to escalate if the subject in controversial i.e. she was talking about the Israeli/Palestine conflict yesterday which I didn't agree with, I just let things slide. Previously I would have tried to convince her she was wrong.
Would the ideal balance now be not to detach completely, but to not initiate the vast majority of conversation?

I also strongly suggest you start thinking about a drop dead date. SteveLW got my wheels turning pretty early on about how long I could live the way I was living, and how long I was willing to let our kids live in that kind of environment. How long did I need to to feel like I gave it this my best shot and if H walked it was on him? Based on what Steve said I decided 1 year from the start of the A. H had 1 year to figure out what he wanted and after that I was going to take back control of my life completely. I was going to be the person deciding my future. That alone, gave me a sense of power back in the chaos. It reminded me of who I was before all of this.

I think you are right. I am going to have to give this some thought.

The other thing I will say is I don't necessarily agree with that Sandi's 37 rules are the end all be all of WWs as I was one in my first MR. And I've known a few in my life. But until you can detach enough that you aren't willing to do literally anything to save the MR but are willing to do literally anything to save yourself in this Sandi's rules are imperative. And they supersede anything I could tell you.

Im not really sure I know what you mean here. Can you please expand on this?

Honestly I don't how much I believe in the plan A plan B thing either. But I do know that if you focus your self improvement around how W acts and reacts you aren't improving yourself. You're kowtowing to someone who's treating you poorly. And that kind of behavior isn't self respect and it certainly isn't self love. No one can love you if you don't learn how to love yourself. Whether that be W or someone new. W has knocked down your self confidence, she's made you question your reality, your future, your sanity. And that's not counting the damage you did to yourself in the years prior. Do you really know who you are right now? Do you know your place in the world outside of this MR? A broken, uncertain version of you won't survive this. You need to fix that. These scenarios only have 2 outcomes, recon or D. And you're only focus should be regardless of what happens how do I become the person I want to be going forward?

Im trying to do this, I am really confused at the moment. Most days I want to fix the MR, some days I am just so angry with her that I want to scream. I need to detatch and jsut work on the changes for myself.

I also wanted to comment on the nice things you keep doing for WW. A lot of men do a lot of things for a payoff. And they think the "nice" things they do will win them points, favor or my favorite of all that they are then entitled to reciprocal action. Doing things for a payoff, isn't nice. Doing things for a payoff with a WW will get you know where but hurt or angry or both. Doing nice things with expectations or doing literally anything with expectations of anyone but especially a WW will set you both up for failure every single time. And once you're there then you have to start asking yourself who is causing you more strife, WW or you? That's not a place to be if you're still emotionally fragile. That will turn inward and get ugly, it will be become bitterness, and you'll never get to move on in either direction.

I'm trying to do nice things because I have been so distant for a long time and this has hurt the MR and the kids. Ultimately I want the nice things to become part of my core, so that I am not doing them to be nice, I am just doing them because that is what I want to do.