A lot of thinking, reading and processing. One thing where I seem a bit stuck:
H is friends again on social media with OW2, So R is showing cracks but he is definitely not yet giving up on her and I have proof now since he told me there is something between them.
R has been kept secret for about 8 months, so good thing is no exposure to kids. They know there is another OW but they are glad they are not confronted with it.
Is it now the time to start treating him as a roommate, currently I treat him as a friend. Do I need to kick him out? The only boundary which is clear to me is no sex or intimacy while with OW2.
I thought once I was aware of the new OW, my boundaries would become clear to me, just like when I found out about OW1, and I was also convinced this would have a huge affect on me again, just like with OW1 but it simply isn’t.
As I understand boundaries are for me, to protect myself. But I don’t feel I need to be protected for something. Why is this?
It’s not surprising H and OW2 re-friended on social media. Like teenagers, friends, then not friends. H is confused and is flipping and flopping. Let him ping pong about while you live a great life.
Originally Posted by Eagle3
As I understand boundaries are for me, to protect myself. But I don’t feel I need to be protected for something. Why is this?
Yes, boundaries are actions you implement to safeguard your emotional and mental and physical health. Most times our rock solid boundaries pertain to disrespectful behaviour in these situations. Earlier on our emotions are torn apart and we are quite adrift in our own despair.
In time we start to heal and we find strength. We regain our balance and center. Our need for boundaries becomes less so. We can more easily tolerate it, seeing and understanding that the person lashing out is really get projecting their own insecurities and pain upon others. However, that doesn’t mean we should allow disprectful behaviour.
Personally, I find my boundaries are not tested that often. As we find our strength and focus, our believes and convictions, we live them. That kind of fortitude shines. People see it. Without any words, people see your strength. It shows in your actions and how you walk your path. The journey is more important than the destination.
In that way, our convictions are hardly ever tested for they are clearly leading. I find it rubs off on those I interact with. We inspire and brighten the world around us. Choosing better instead of bitter is an infectious thing.
Anyhow, that is one way why we feel less need for boundaries.
We also become indifferent. Our spouse cannot hurt us anymore. This is two fold, indifference and realizing that we control our emotions. Why get hurt because H says or does something you cannot control. Obviously, it initially hurts. However, we do not reinforce that and it flits away.
Another item to consider regarding not feeling a need for boundaries is denial. That first boom of loss. We are so shocked and stunned, we become zombie-like for a while. I do not believe you are experiencing any significant denial even with the new information and proof of OW.
I believe you are indifferent and rather strong. You are getting well healed and living a good life. In short, you are not feeling the need for boundaries because you don’t need them. Lol. Now how’s that for some wisdom. You don’t need them because you don’t need them. Haha.
I do have a point somewhere in the morning’s ramblings. You feel like you do not need boundaries. Now, believe it.
Reinforce that feeling. Consider the thoughts that go with that. The rational part. Like the above stuff. All that reinforces and crafts/alters/strengthens your conviction. This is a value and belief that serves you. Feed it well.
The lack of clarity is understandable. At the time of OW1 you were in a different place. Now you are more healed and better equipped. Sword and shield.
So, H is with OW2. Therefore no sex or intimacy. Yes, he is a roommate. He chose to be.
Do you need to kick him out? Not really. Can you even actually do that anyhow?
For the times H comes over he can stay in the spare room if that still works for you. However, you could suggest that he stays elsewhere since he is playing house with another woman. Personally, I think you should. The choice is yours.
I think if you enact your boundary / suggestion you will not feel stuck and move forward quite well. Just ensure it is not rooted in an attempt to manipulate H and his path. You do for you!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I sincerely believe that I no longer have to impose boundaries, is that better? LOL
As said several times, I fully understand the MLC process, I have moved beyond the anger, the fear, the sadness and instead I have made room for understanding, compassion and forgiveness. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have strict values, and I do agree with you that I still have to stand for my own and make them clear to him.
My values are not in line with what is currently going on, still married but in a secret sort of relationship with OW, and still wanting to be intimate with W, since I didn’t know about it . Do I need this for myself, not really, I know who I am and what I stand for, but I'm doing this for the kids so that they might learn that this is something you cannot tolerate whilst married. (thank you Gerda :))
So therefore I wish to say the following to him, and to confirm it on paper, in the past with OW1 I had to do this as well since often he doesn’t remember what I said (or he pretends to not know it), but of course I will wait until after the party of S17:
Your life, your choices. It’s not clear to me if you are actually with OW today, but you have confirmed to me that something has been going on with her for a while now. You know I draw the line there, I've made this clear in the past. That's why I suggest you better look for something else while you are in "Home country". I can't forbid you not to stay here as it's your house too but we are still married so to me this is adultery and this is not in line with my values nor with the values I want to pass on to the children.
If he threatens with a divorce, then I’ll tell him to go ahead, I'm ready. But he will have to do the work himself. And if he decides to just keep coming, no problem. Then he effectively becomes a roommate.
Do I also have to make this clear to him somehow, that I will no longer treat him as friends?
As for the kids, it was them who pointed out to me that there was probably an OW again, which is why I want to show them what is the right thing to do in such a situation, regardless of MLC or not.
Let me say, you are doing absolutely fantastic! That ^^^^ is very well said indeed.
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I have moved beyond the anger, the fear, the sadness and instead I have made room for understanding, compassion and forgiveness.
Perfect.
Originally Posted by Eagle3
Your life, your choices. It’s not clear to me if you are actually with OW today, but you have confirmed to me that something has been going on with her for a while now. You know I draw the line there, I've made this clear in the past. That's why I suggest you better look for something else while you are in "Home country". I can't forbid you not to stay here as it's your house too but we are still married so to me this is adultery and this is not in line with my values nor with the values I want to pass on to the children.
Very well stated.
I have one wording change which I’m pretty sure you’ll agree with.
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…we are still married so to me this is adultery and…
As I said, pretty sure you’ll agree.
Originally Posted by Eagle3
Do I also have to make this clear to him somehow, that I will no longer treat him as friends?
Not at all. Your actions will say and be heard much more than words ever will.
If he brings it up have something ready. Maybe along the lines of: H, I do care for you but we are not friends. My friends don’t treat me the way you have treated me.
Originally Posted by Eagle3
As for the kids, it was them who pointed out to me that there was probably an OW again, which is why I want to show them what is the right thing to do in such a situation, regardless of MLC or not.
Yes. Be the excellent role model you are.
That was quite an inspiring post my dear friend.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
That's why I suggest you better look for something else while you are in "Home country". I can't forbid you not to stay here as it's your house too but we are still married so to me this is adultery and this is not in line with my values nor with the values I want to pass on to the children.
Cut that part - no need to remind him that he can force his way in.
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That's why I suggest you better look for somewhere else to stay while you are in "Home country". We are still married so to me this is adultery and this is not in line with my values nor with the values I want to pass on to the children.
Hope you all had some lovely moments the past days and you are all doing well.
I yet again need some advice.
We were talking about the message I wanted to give H in regards to the visits in the house while he's in home country and having OW2.
I haven't done this yet because of the following which happened yesterday:
You should know in the first place that my H used to see a child psychiatrist between the ages of 5 and 12, someone he has been very grateful to all his life for giving him the help and the security that he couldn't find home that time. When he was older, around 16 years, he also had to see a psychiatrist (his father forced him), but he never found one like this one so he quit going. He couldn't go that that one anymore since he was too old to go to a child psychiatrist and this wasn't allowed. (There are clear known FOO’s present within my husband, but his mother buried it and never talked about it anymore, and H has always wanted to know what was wrong with him back then)
However, this psychiatrist has retired, moved and could no longer be located anymore. Since my H has been saying for months that this is the only one he had such a connection with and that he would like to ask him what was going on with him in the past, as well as now want to tell his story, I did everything I could to find this person. His sister told me about a year ago that this psychiatrist told her mother years ago that at certain ages (turning points in H’s live) this will all come back and that H would have very difficult moments in life, that therefore he should be followed up all his life (which didn’t happen since his mother buried it) Yesterday this psychiatrist called me. That man remembered my H very well and I briefly explained the story to him. This man in turn has given his contact details and H is allowed to contact him, he is willing to have a conversation with him. I passed this on to H via email yesterday with the necessary explanation.
What this psychiatrist did say was that, because of the fact that I am taking this step now, I should absolutely not put any pressure on him because this could stop him from contacting him. He also asked if I was still standing for my marriage and if I can be there for him if it comes to that because that H will need it then. I told him that I am a stander and that I want to be there for him. So this means that this message I wanted to send can do more harm than good. And I cannot speak of the fact that I can no longer be his friend now.
How would you deal with that, because on the one hand I think it is important to make my boundaries clear to him, and certainly also that the children are aware of OW2.
Can I amend the message, let him know that these are two different things? Of maybe don't send it yet and see if he will contact the man?
What an interesting development; H’s now retired childhood psychiatrist reaching out. I suspect this man will be attempting to bridge H to a known colleague rather than delve into many sessions.
As for pressure.
Manipulation.
Do not manipulate H’s path. This is the cornerstone of your actions. You do things for you. You take actions for you. You do not take action in an attempt to alter, sway, or otherwise manipulate H’s path. H must walk, and therefore take accountability, of his choices.
No pressure does not mean you let yourself be walked over.
You can support H and not have him sleep over. The guy is playing house with another woman; there are consequences for that. If those self caused consequences sting and cause him to run - so be it. You do for you. You stand for you. Your values. Your beliefs. Your convictions.
Remember how I said your beliefs get tested. And how that is a good thing, for one needs strong convictions. Well, you are being tested. And it’s from yourself. Which is exactly how those tests happen.
See beyond your feelings and consider the rational view of all this. You know what to do, even though it feels different and sometimes wrong. That’s the counterintuitive part of all this.
You may let H slide or you can hold your ground. H may awaken or not. This is a chaotic system with far to many unknown variables. Manipulation doesn’t work and drags one into things and make them responsible. You do not want to be responsible for H’s path.
It may be that your boundaries are the very thing that allows H the internal strength to move forward. Who knows. Stand for you. Do for you.
We just do that with kindness and compassion is all. Which takes a bit of indifference as well. Not enabling, holding someone accountable, and still being kind. That kind of mindset.
Just my two cents.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So the message as it is today, you would keep it that way?
I personally, speaking for myself, I definitely want to tell him this, yes.
You seem to tell me that I can stand for H, and the chance he is offered by the psychiatrist, but that this is completely separate from the beliefs I’m standing for, right?
I just wanted to know if I need to change anything about the message, or if it's OK as it is.
No pressure does not mean you let yourself be walked over.
You can support H and not have him sleep over. The guy is playing house with another woman; there are consequences for that. If those self caused consequences sting and cause him to run - so be it. You do for you. You stand for you. Your values. Your beliefs. Your convictions.
This, exactly. You can still stand for him without having to let him walk all over you. You can calmly state that since he has OW2, you feel he needs to stay somewhere else during his visits. That this is a boundary you need for yourself. Don't let emotions or anger enter into it - just the simple statement that he shouldn't pretend to be with you if he's with her and that it is too difficult for you. If he still insists on staying in the family home, then do not give him access to your bedroom and spend as much time out of the home yourself as you can.
Honestly, so long as he can have you AND OW he will not face the reality of what he is going to lose.
