Man where have you been all this time. Let these guys have it in the future.
Well LH number 1, certain LBHs for the lack of a better term, trigger me. I have a very hard time separating their behavior from the way my exH behaved and I don't want to insert myself in a place where my bias will waaayyy to heavily influence what I say to those posters. Not every LBH is my ex. Not every WW is me. But I still struggle not seeing some of these MR that way, especially with LBHs who's motives, history and narration of events seem less than crystal clear. Secondly, some body, and I won't name names but I bet he can guess who I'm talking about gets mad at me when I get upset with the alpha male stuff And like I've said some of these dudes do not, I repeat do not need, an internet infusion of ego. So if the LBH isn't an actually weepy mess which we've seen, lord knows, I check out the second the alpha stuff comes out. But per your request, I'll try to check in more often with LBHs.
Originally Posted by LH19
Fair point. Just wondered how it aligned with the vows that are preached on here so often. Just so you know I agree.
So I'm a vow person. You know this. But that's the thing, the concept that vows are little better than a pinky promise is true if you believe it to be so. It's not true if you don't. That's the thing about intangibles. I don't know how serious either were when they made those vows. And by the time he got here they had both thrown them out the window.
For me personally, I can say with certainty when I took them in my first MR they didn't mean anything. Partially because I didn't have a fully formed frontal lobe yet, partially because you're just repeating words back when you elope hastily, and partially because I was pregnant and he wanted the baby and the family and those vows were the path to that. I never had that and I wanted my baby to at least get a chance at it. Clearly that was an error in my teenage judgement.
In my second MR, we wrote our own vows. I wrote that I would be faithful even though in this day and age it's so easy to be tempted. I've upheld that and intend to. I wrote that I would give 110% when he couldn't give 50%. I've upheld that and continue to. I wrote that I know love isn't all rainbows and sunshine that we will fight, we will hate each other in moments, we will feel disconnected, we will have hard times, and question the love, but that I'd never give up on us because like in the beginning of our relationship when I was incredibly unsure of him, his love, and a future with him he never gave up on me and we made it to the altar. And I've battled my way through even when it was alone to this point in our MR. My vows mean something to me. I understand that isn't going to be true of everyone, but even if you don't believe they mean something at the end of the MR, at some point to somebody they meant something and should be acknowledged.
Originally Posted by LH19
This in my personal life never happens. I do not know anyone personally who has fixed their marriage. They either divorce or live miserably.
We all have choices. When you go to discernment counseling they offer you 3 paths. They ask which you'd like to take: divorce, status quo, or save the marriage. They inform you of exactly what each path looks like pros and cons. Saving the marriage is by far the most complex and difficult one. Two people have to be all in, all the time to do so. They have to do the work every single day. And they have to achieve a level of honesty and openness that they can call out the other for backsliding. We live in a world where we are fed from a very young age that love comes easy, that love shouldn't be work, that love should come with no negative emotions, that love if it's the right kind of love it exists with no complications. But the reality is love is hard, and messy, and complex, and if you don't actively feed that love, if you don't actively choose that love every single day it will fall apart. It's a 24/7 job to constantly be working on your personal growth and growing together. I know very few people who are willing to sign on to tackling that in an uncomplicated relationship, much less one like we see here, like mine where there's and A in the mix. I don't fault any one for choosing D or status quo in their lives. I respect it. But watching couples who reach the other side and how they are with each other, and their children is a sight to behold. And I want very much to be in that group of people who put in the work every single day for love.
Secondly, some body, and I won't name names but I bet he can guess who I'm talking about gets mad at me when I get upset with the alpha male stuff And like I've said some of these dudes do not, I repeat do not need, an internet infusion of ego. So if the LBH isn't an actually weepy mess which we've seen, lord knows, I check out the second the alpha stuff comes out. But per your request, I'll try to check in more often with LBHs.
I think a lot of the "alpha" stuffs gets blown out of proportion because most people misunderstand what it means. Here is the definition I have saved and see zero issues with striving towards this mindset. “A true alpha’s state of mind is one of indifference, charm, humor, humility, courage and a belief that eventually, things will work out in their favor. Alphas set, keep and hold other people accountable to their boundaries. They stand up for what they believe in and don’t compromise their principles or values for anyone. They have an emotionally compelling vision of what kind of life and lifestyle they want to create and then resolve to pay the price, no matter how long it takes to make it a reality.”
Originally Posted by wayfarer
But watching couples who reach the other side and how they are with each other, and their children is a sight to behold. And I want very much to be in that group of people who put in the work every single day for love.
I wanted to get there too. My ex and I came from parents who had fuched up marriages and we took on the traditions of what I thought was normal. She's an avoidant so by the time I realized we were in deep trouble it was too late. I can honestly say we never put an ounce of effort in trying to improve our marriage and miraculously making it 17 years with 14 being pretty damn good. Unfortunately my kids carry the biggest burden of our knowledge gap. I try to focus on the good 14 and not so much on the bad 3 and move forward the best we can.
Just to clear up the perspective a bit. I have the high drive. So I do truly understand what it's like to be in that position in a SSM. So while I have empathy, it would've never occurred to me to keep begging until he gave in. One no is enough for me. I have cried myself to sleep many, many night being rejected by men regarding physical intimacy. Also because of that role reversal me begging and begging and begging to be touched for months at a time was used against me when I tried to refuse. So my situation was slightly atypical from a standard SSM where the wife is gatekeeping physical intimacy.
As far as the self awareness, Steve, you felt exactly the way a self aware person would feel after this. If you don't feel this way after coercing some one into something there is something wrong. My point is not every man, or husband feels this way. A lot of them go on about their day. Hence my statement on self awareness.
Just to clear up the perspective a bit. I have the high drive. So I do truly understand what it's like to be in that position in a SSM. So while I have empathy, it would've never occurred to me to keep begging until he gave in. One no is enough for me. I have cried myself to sleep many, many night being rejected by men regarding physical intimacy. Also because of that role reversal me begging and begging and begging to be touched for months at a time was used against me when I tried to refuse. So my situation was slightly atypical from a standard SSM where the wife is gatekeeping physical intimacy.
As far as the self awareness, Steve, you felt exactly the way a self aware person would feel after this. If you don't feel this way after coercing some one into something there is something wrong. My point is not every man, or husband feels this way. A lot of them go on about their day. Hence my statement on self awareness.
Thanks, yes I think we've talked before about the fact you were the high desire partner. However, I think there is a difference between men and women in this regard. We (men) WILL beg, plead, connive, lie, etc. to get a women to sleep with us. Thus the whole "I love you" lie that plenty of guys have floated out there in order to "get some". I am not excusing that. It is sad, pathetic, unethical AND immoral. And I regret to say to say, I've been guilty of those things. (Not the "I love you" lie, I would never do that.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
We (men) WILL beg, plead, connive, lie, etc. to get a women to sleep with us. Thus the whole "I love you" lie that plenty of guys have floated out there in order to "get some". I am not excusing that. It is sad, pathetic, unethical AND immoral. And I regret to say to say, I've been guilty of those things. (Not the "I love you" lie, I would never do that.)
We (men) WILL beg, plead, connive, lie, etc. to get a women to sleep with us. Thus the whole "I love you" lie that plenty of guys have floated out there in order to "get some". I am not excusing that. It is sad, pathetic, unethical AND immoral. And I regret to say to say, I've been guilty of those things. (Not the "I love you" lie, I would never do that.)
Uuuummmm not all men do this I can promise you.
LH, you and your totalities. I am well aware that there are awesome men like you that do not have resort to this.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
And like I've said some of these dudes do not, I repeat do not need, an internet infusion of ego. So if the LBH isn't an actually weepy mess which we've seen, lord knows, I check out the second the alpha stuff comes out. But per your request, I'll try to check in more often with LBHs. 