His attitude is so like an emotional crisis person. Negative and permanent. I’ll never ever feel... It will always be bad... and so on and so on.
Ah, that's true. At the same time he is saying he's emotionally enlightened now, I forgot that he doesn't have the understanding that feelings change. And that's the unrealized expectation I had--not that the next convo would have been about D or reconciliation, but that with the lifting of anger that I sensed, he would not still be blaming me, at least not to the same extent. That's why I was so saddened and disappointed. He may not be blaming me quite as angrily, but all of the blame is still there the same. And so it reinforces my fear that his feelings about me or M will never change (not even like toward reconciliation, but toward recognition and accepting responsibility).
Originally Posted by DnJ
My XW and I had cute nicknames too. I’d love to hear mine again. I’d love to be hugged again. Coming up on four years soon. And I have those memories of the last time such and such happened, and I didn’t know at the time that was going to be the last time. I was unrecognized and then completely ignored; like I’m dead. It’s a heck of a way for XW and me, our life together to end.
Thanks for sharing this, D. I know you get it. I see you can still recognize the great sadness of it all while still reaching acceptance and embracing life. I will get there. I have been moving in that direction, and moving through waves of new grief that slow me momentarily.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Wonder what he would have said to a response of: What do you suggest H?
He did lead me to the issue of the pension, after listing other things and saying he really didn't care about them. I think he wants me to accept short-term support in lieu of the retirement. He hinted that's what he would prefer. I hinted that I could entertain the opposite arrangement.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I do suspect he would have gotten around to the issue of pension and all that followed. H knows, and knew your stance. He is looking for justification of how he feels. Back off. No more emotional conversations regarding divorce. It is a business matter. Keep it such.
That's why I'm disappointed in myself. I gave him more justification. But I also realize I don't know how to engage in a conversation that only involves business. I'm easily pulled in to trying to get him to see my true intentions, even as I realized he's still in the place where there is nothing I can say or do to make that happen. Even as I realize I have no control over what he thinks of me, or whether he decides to hold something else against me or not.
What would that look like?
Me: I still feel strongly about X.
H: I feel just as strongly you don't deserve X.
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way.
H: You don't deserve it because....
Me: [Trying in many ways to explain how I see it even as I acknowledge his perspective.] I'm sorry that's how you feel.
Is it just like that? I don't understand how to negotiate, obviously, and I don't see how to move things forward if it's just me saying over and over I'm sorry you feel that way. If I asked, What do you propose? And he said I propose to give you everything but my pension and that's his only proposal, how do I respond?
