I am not detached, Pack19 part4

[Pack_19]

Hi Sandi! thanks for keeping up with my posts. Your words always help me!

Okay Pack. I'm trying to understand. I still don't understand what you mean by being "together" for 10 years (five of those have been a MR), and your son was born a year before the M. So, you weren't in a committed relationship with her, until she got pregnant? It was nothing more than just dating? Had either of you expressed being in love (before she got drunk and was with OM)? B/c if there were no words of love exchanged and no "understanding" that it was an exclusive dating relationship, would she not have been free to see other guys? If it was nothing more than going out on dates like single people do..........I don't think it could be seen as her cheating.

We were in a serious R, committed and exclusively since the end of 2009 and this happened in Sep 2011. It was not casual dating. We continued together all through university and when I left to the UK to study my MSc. Then she got pregnant the year of my MSc and S7 was born 2 months after I started my first job. I told her to move in with me to the UK and that I would help her finish her studies but she replied that she would only do that if we married and that if we didnt get M I was not in love with her. I told her I loved her but I wanted to pay for things in my wedding and it was not the time for me, I asked her to come and eventually I thought, I love her and we have a son. I want to live with them so let's get married and start a life in the UK.

Then all the pressure in my head started, I was feeling bad because she was home with S7 and I wanted her to be free to pursue a career but at the same time I asked her to help (maybe not in the most empathic way) because nursery was incredibly expensive. I then became a war horse to provide for them and I let our emotional R and our private time die as we also had a baby in between taking a lot of time and attention from us. You know the rest of the story. I know my part, I hope I am not giving the impression of telling my side. She was in a foreign country as a mom, at home and she must have felt very lonely when I focused on work and my career. It is so frustrating that we cannot have these conversations now, I dont know if by now I want a change of heart in her, after all she has done... but cutting like she has without talking about this with someone to help us, I think it is sad.

But regardless of what to call it, her actions that night were highly inappropriate, even if she was in no type of R or showed up at the party without a date! This one act showed how little she respected herself, and it showed how little she respect the guy who took her to the party (Pack). Obviously, you took her actions as cheating at the time. At the least, you thought you deserved someone better than this gal. She either saw it as cheating, also, or else she knew she had messed up big time..... enough to continue apologizing and trying to make up. Funny how you were able to let it go and put it in the past, but she felt bitter at you b/c she thought you were trying to pay her back.

I did not entirely put it behind Sandi. I wanted to but I just couldn't. That night changed the perception I had from her and it affected our R in the following months if not years. In my defense, all these years her attitude was like "it is in the past let's forget about it and we were only 20 and it was not so major". THIS, is what I could not tolerate inside my head, but I was a boy not a man, so I kept it inside until it destroyed myself as well. I wish someone had given me NMMNG and Holding n to your NUTS when I was 18. There are some things I would have asked from her back then.

I only have your side of the story, but I'll tell you how this sitch looks to me. I think you are the type of man who likes setting goals and working on yourself to be at the top of your game. I see your W as being self-centered and somewhat immature. She thinks she should have your undivided attention, which is impossible if you are going to provide for your family. Instead of taking responsibility for her failures, she blames everything on you. Therefore, she doesn't grow and develop into a better individual. She likes being a party girl, and maybe that's her little hidden secret.......that she has a bit of wild side that wants to come out. IDK, but rather than take responsibility and do something about her drinking, it's easier for her to blame someone else. A lot can be determined by a person when you look at the friends they hang out with, whether drunk or sober.

It must be your maturity or experience but again you nail it. I am that man, I have always been that man and admired by my friends, which means I have never had issues with getting W. Yes I had a lot of emotional defects and I did not understand what women expect from us. But I set goals, I go for them and I want to be the best at it. This makes me attractive and happy at the same time. My goals are above anything but my kids now. She is quite absorbing. Every time we came back to Seville to visit we stayed at her parents, she always said she has a better R with her mom and that I never talk to my parents so it was better. But actually sometimes I wanted to feel at my home, and I did not have the b@lls to say it. As we were dating she would complain because I used to work Saturday morning and we could not date until late on Friday which was like our day together. I told her my job was important to pay my expenses and I offered to go out on Saturdays instead more often. These are stupid examples, but I think they illustrate what you mentioned. She has that thing for going out, in the same way that my thing are cars, hers is going out for a party with friends. I am sure that wild side is now free, now that she does not have a ring on and has her new tattoos, but I also now it will not make her happy. I only hope I can work on me hard enough so that when it hits her, I am not here being a safety net anymore. As LH mentioned, she knows ahe can have me back anytime, that ends today!

The tragedy in all of this (besides how it effects the kids) is that you have totally believed everything she said about you. She filled your head with so much negative talk about your failures as a H, and you bought into the lies. Recently, you have been able to see some personal growth and your posts are sounding better........and I think part of it is due to having NC with the person who is toxin. I notice you've said you are working on NC, so that makes me think you still struggle with it. Nobody said it would be easy, but once you realize you need some of the attitude of that 20 yr old guy, who saw himself deserving better than someone like her......won't you be able to let her go? That's your problem in a nutshell. You won't let her go.

I think I am beginning to see myself less of a failure when it comes to the R with W. Yes I had a lot of defects but that does not make me a lost cause or a man one should walk away from. The kids, yes that still destroys me inside, thinking not only how it has and is affecting them, but how this can evolve in the future and affect their lives and their future relationships. I am NC now and yes it helps, the kind of interactions I miss with W are not in her to do list so I am better off staying away. No more threats, no more manipulation and no more insults in front of my children. That 20 year old boy is coming out again, but this time as a man and father. He is going to build that amazing life LH encouraged me to do, alone.

Instead of seeing her objectively, you see it as your personal failure. That is what I've read between the lines from day one. Based on how you like to be the best you can at whatever you do, it's very difficult for you to accept this type of "failure". I know all your arguments about kids, responsibilities, family, etc. I agree whenever there is a family, it's more serious and there are more responsibilities, than when you were younger and single. Most of your DBing was done with the idea if you worked hard enough and became good enough .......you could save the MR. I think you might agree it didn't work. As long as there is two people in relationship, there's always a chance that one of them will not cooperate, no matter how much you change for the better. Therefore, I think you have to look at the root cause for these problems. The root issue started before the marriage took place. Your W did not respect you before the M, and she doesn't respect you now. I don't really see that changing, b/c I think it is a problem in her. It's b/c of who & what she is as a person, and it would require work she wouldn't be willing to do.

I agree, I focused the whole thing as winning her back and I was wrong and it does not work. I might as well focus myself of getting back the respect and admiration from those I interact with. When you are a good, faithful and hard working man, it should not be that hard to get the respect from you partner. Thanks a lot Sandi, I will think about your words.

You can't improve yourself as her H, b/c she's not going to let you be her H. However, you will always be a man, and a father. I think you are finally seeing this is true, and you are realizing you've got to build a life without her. Although it's still painful, you are getting stronger. In the beginning, you were probably told you can't fix her. I think you are closer to believing it today than when you first joined the board.

Somehow I thought my changes and actions could wake her up or at least awake in her the desire to work together for this M considering the value of our family. It has been a long time since I have felt respected, admired and loved by a woman. She was detaching from our R and blaming me and I could only think this is because of all the stress we have and it will get better. I know I cannot fix her Sandi. I wish things were different and all this pain was over. Let's keep rowing, let's keep working on Pack and making him an amazing guy.

Thanks for your posts! Your words always drive me to reflection and humility. ((hugs)) Pack