Thanks Pack. I think this is a good change. If you give up hope of R what is left but to file? If you don't think you'll be ready for that by May (and having a second deadline suggests you may not), then just set a date further out (August). I was confused when you said you had dual deadlines.
I am not ready to give up hope but I need to put an end to this fake link I feel between us while she is behaving the way she is. I can wait until August but it is not going to be with the same attitude. I think I deserve much better than what I am getting from W right now...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 29 W:29 M: 5yrs T:10yrs S:6 yrs S:1 yr BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19 Sep: 10/27/19
Pack thanks for clarifying things and bringing more insight.
So your W was unfaithful when you were dating.
Cheaters cheat because that's what they do and do not see it as being wrong.
Why do you think you were trying to live a life you couldn't afford?
Pack I am not saying you are not ready to D. Only you know if you are ready. I just don't think you should D to date.
So no truth to be selfish and arrogant?
Just so you know IMO is there is remorse it will be many many years down the road.
LH, not sure if you have ever cheated on a GF or wife. I have made it known before that I cheated on my W when we were dating.
I did see it as wrong at the time. "Cheaters cheat" is not really true. I did it once. I wanted the attention of multiple women that I had when I was single for the couple years before I met my W and began dating. Having multiple women made me feel desirable and wanted.
Most WW see it as wrong too. It is evidenced by their actions. If they believed it was morally right, they wouldn't hide it like they do. A lot of the WW's use the affair as a tool to break their bond with the husband, planning to get obsessed with a new man to forget about their old one. I'm sure many have heard the saying "the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone new". But, as we know, that isn't 100% true. If you haven't spent time alone, you haven't gotten over things, those thoughts and feelings are not fully processed and people will flounder.
That said, I think men and women cheat for different reasons typically. I think you are pretty aware of this but I say this for everyone else reading.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Pack thanks for clarifying things and bringing more insight.
So your W was unfaithful when you were dating.
Cheaters cheat because that's what they do and do not see it as being wrong.
Why do you think you were trying to live a life you couldn't afford?
Pack I am not saying you are not ready to D. Only you know if you are ready. I just don't think you should D to date.
So no truth to be selfish and arrogant?
Just so you know IMO is there is remorse it will be many many years down the road.
LH, not sure if you have ever cheated on a GF or wife. I have made it known before that I cheated on my W when we were dating.
I did see it as wrong at the time. "Cheaters cheat" is not really true. I did it once. I wanted the attention of multiple women that I had when I was single for the couple years before I met my W and began dating. Having multiple women made me feel desirable and wanted.
Most WW see it as wrong too. It is evidenced by their actions. If they believed it was morally right, they wouldn't hide it like they do. A lot of the WW's use the affair as a tool to break their bond with the husband, planning to get obsessed with a new man to forget about their old one. I'm sure many have heard the saying "the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone new". But, as we know, that isn't 100% true. If you haven't spent time alone, you haven't gotten over things, those thoughts and feelings are not fully processed and people will flounder.
That said, I think men and women cheat for different reasons typically. I think you are pretty aware of this but I say this for everyone else reading.
I am more with LH on this one. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Past behavior is an indicator of relevant future behavior. Whether it was circumstances, mindset, or just the right opportunity, if it was capable of occurring before it isn't a huge leap to think that it can happen again.
Now, I do believe people can be remorseful and really change. It i just that it tends to be a very small % of the population that can do this in meaningful ways. I have been open about my past alcoholism. This is why I am a strict teetotaler now. I fear that allowing myself one sip will spin me down the path of alcoholism again. I have to be on guard, all the time, to keep it in check. I even told a story recently about seeing a whiskey-flavored ice-cream in the freezer section and suddenly I had a craving for bourbon! I haven't touched the stuff in nearly 30 years.....yet words on an ice-cream carton triggered a physical response. So ovr, I believe you can live the rest of your life without ever cheating again.......but it will require you being committed to that and doing everything in your power to not even start down that road.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Pack thanks for clarifying things and bringing more insight.
So your W was unfaithful when you were dating.
Cheaters cheat because that's what they do and do not see it as being wrong.
Why do you think you were trying to live a life you couldn't afford?
Pack I am not saying you are not ready to D. Only you know if you are ready. I just don't think you should D to date.
So no truth to be selfish and arrogant?
Just so you know IMO is there is remorse it will be many many years down the road.
LH, not sure if you have ever cheated on a GF or wife. I have made it known before that I cheated on my W when we were dating.
I did see it as wrong at the time. "Cheaters cheat" is not really true. I did it once. I wanted the attention of multiple women that I had when I was single for the couple years before I met my W and began dating. Having multiple women made me feel desirable and wanted.
Most WW see it as wrong too. It is evidenced by their actions. If they believed it was morally right, they wouldn't hide it like they do. A lot of the WW's use the affair as a tool to break their bond with the husband, planning to get obsessed with a new man to forget about their old one. I'm sure many have heard the saying "the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone new". But, as we know, that isn't 100% true. If you haven't spent time alone, you haven't gotten over things, those thoughts and feelings are not fully processed and people will flounder.
That said, I think men and women cheat for different reasons typically. I think you are pretty aware of this but I say this for everyone else reading.
I am more with LH on this one. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Past behavior is an indicator of relevant future behavior. Whether it was circumstances, mindset, or just the right opportunity, if it was capable of occurring before it isn't a huge leap to think that it can happen again.
Now, I do believe people can be remorseful and really change. It i just that it tends to be a very small % of the population that can do this in meaningful ways. I have been open about my past alcoholism. This is why I am a strict teetotaler now. I fear that allowing myself one sip will spin me down the path of alcoholism again. I have to be on guard, all the time, to keep it in check. I even told a story recently about seeing a whiskey-flavored ice-cream in the freezer section and suddenly I had a craving for bourbon! I haven't touched the stuff in nearly 30 years.....yet words on an ice-cream carton triggered a physical response. So ovr, I believe you can live the rest of your life without ever cheating again.......but it will require you being committed to that and doing everything in your power to not even start down that road.
Pack thanks for clarifying things and bringing more insight.
So your W was unfaithful when you were dating.
Cheaters cheat because that's what they do and do not see it as being wrong.
Why do you think you were trying to live a life you couldn't afford?
Pack I am not saying you are not ready to D. Only you know if you are ready. I just don't think you should D to date.
So no truth to be selfish and arrogant?
Just so you know IMO is there is remorse it will be many many years down the road.
LH, not sure if you have ever cheated on a GF or wife. I have made it known before that I cheated on my W when we were dating.
I did see it as wrong at the time. "Cheaters cheat" is not really true. I did it once. I wanted the attention of multiple women that I had when I was single for the couple years before I met my W and began dating. Having multiple women made me feel desirable and wanted.
Most WW see it as wrong too. It is evidenced by their actions. If they believed it was morally right, they wouldn't hide it like they do. A lot of the WW's use the affair as a tool to break their bond with the husband, planning to get obsessed with a new man to forget about their old one. I'm sure many have heard the saying "the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone new". But, as we know, that isn't 100% true. If you haven't spent time alone, you haven't gotten over things, those thoughts and feelings are not fully processed and people will flounder.
That said, I think men and women cheat for different reasons typically. I think you are pretty aware of this but I say this for everyone else reading.
I am more with LH on this one. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Past behavior is an indicator of relevant future behavior. Whether it was circumstances, mindset, or just the right opportunity, if it was capable of occurring before it isn't a huge leap to think that it can happen again.
Now, I do believe people can be remorseful and really change. It i just that it tends to be a very small % of the population that can do this in meaningful ways. I have been open about my past alcoholism. This is why I am a strict teetotaler now. I fear that allowing myself one sip will spin me down the path of alcoholism again. I have to be on guard, all the time, to keep it in check. I even told a story recently about seeing a whiskey-flavored ice-cream in the freezer section and suddenly I had a craving for bourbon! I haven't touched the stuff in nearly 30 years.....yet words on an ice-cream carton triggered a physical response. So ovr, I believe you can live the rest of your life without ever cheating again.......but it will require you being committed to that and doing everything in your power to not even start down that road.
Well Steve,
I have to 100% disagree with you. I normally love what you have to say, so this is quite the change. In order to always be a cheater, I'd have to have continued cheating. Since I have not, your statement is not true. If your sentiment is that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, I will have to agree. I didn't even need IC to figure out what I was doing when I cheated when dating.
For me, it was not an addiction, like alcoholism. I did it once, never became addicted, and my brain chemicals were never signaling that this behavior was required for survival to continue, like an addict's brain would.
My point is that there are levels to this. Some people are habitual, repeat offenders, some WS's are naive idealists who think they can be "friends" with people of the opposite sex, some WS's are looking for a way out of their marriage, some make a one time mistake, some are depressed, some have allowed a deep emotional involvement. I think that context matters.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Good for you to get a handle on it and not cheat again. There are always one offs and there are different kind of cheaters. Some maybe got drunk and had a one night stand and are deeply remorseful. What I am referring to are the ones that have affairs for months/years. Those statistically speaking will cheat again. Mainly I think because they don’t believe they are doing anything wrong. There is always a reason to justify it.
It’s interesting that in Scotty Bs and now Packs sitches it comes out later that both WWs cheater while they were dating. I bet if you dig into the past of most WWs you will find that they have cheated in the past. I know mine did. Not on me that I know of but on another BF. Alcoholics drink, druggies use, gamblers gamble and cheaters cheat.
Pack thanks for clarifying things and bringing more insight.
So your W was unfaithful when you were dating.
Cheaters cheat because that's what they do and do not see it as being wrong.
Why do you think you were trying to live a life you couldn't afford?
Pack I am not saying you are not ready to D. Only you know if you are ready. I just don't think you should D to date.
So no truth to be selfish and arrogant?
Just so you know IMO is there is remorse it will be many many years down the road.
LH, not sure if you have ever cheated on a GF or wife. I have made it known before that I cheated on my W when we were dating.
I did see it as wrong at the time. "Cheaters cheat" is not really true. I did it once. I wanted the attention of multiple women that I had when I was single for the couple years before I met my W and began dating. Having multiple women made me feel desirable and wanted.
Most WW see it as wrong too. It is evidenced by their actions. If they believed it was morally right, they wouldn't hide it like they do. A lot of the WW's use the affair as a tool to break their bond with the husband, planning to get obsessed with a new man to forget about their old one. I'm sure many have heard the saying "the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone new". But, as we know, that isn't 100% true. If you haven't spent time alone, you haven't gotten over things, those thoughts and feelings are not fully processed and people will flounder.
That said, I think men and women cheat for different reasons typically. I think you are pretty aware of this but I say this for everyone else reading.
I am more with LH on this one. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Past behavior is an indicator of relevant future behavior. Whether it was circumstances, mindset, or just the right opportunity, if it was capable of occurring before it isn't a huge leap to think that it can happen again.
Now, I do believe people can be remorseful and really change. It i just that it tends to be a very small % of the population that can do this in meaningful ways. I have been open about my past alcoholism. This is why I am a strict teetotaler now. I fear that allowing myself one sip will spin me down the path of alcoholism again. I have to be on guard, all the time, to keep it in check. I even told a story recently about seeing a whiskey-flavored ice-cream in the freezer section and suddenly I had a craving for bourbon! I haven't touched the stuff in nearly 30 years.....yet words on an ice-cream carton triggered a physical response. So ovr, I believe you can live the rest of your life without ever cheating again.......but it will require you being committed to that and doing everything in your power to not even start down that road.
Well Steve,
I have to 100% disagree with you. I normally love what you have to say, so this is quite the change. In order to always be a cheater, I'd have to have continued cheating. Since I have not, your statement is not true. If your sentiment is that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, I will have to agree. I didn't even need IC to figure out what I was doing when I cheated when dating.
For me, it was not an addiction, like alcoholism. I did it once, never became addicted, and my brain chemicals were never signaling that this behavior was required for survival to continue, like an addict's brain would.
My point is that there are levels to this. Some people are habitual, repeat offenders, some WS's are naive idealists who think they can be "friends" with people of the opposite sex, some WS's are looking for a way out of their marriage, some make a one time mistake, some are depressed, some have allowed a deep emotional involvement. I think that context matters.
Ovr, no problem man. I did say that there are those that can change, sounds like that was you. Your a valuable asset to this forum, and I am glad you being the perspective that you bring! There are always exceptions. There are no absolutes.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm glad you have not cheated again since that previous incident, but I tend to agree with Steve and LH on this one. Of course, there are exceptions. From my personal experience there are generally two types of men: men who would never cheat and men who are habitual cheaters. I have many friends who have never cheated, and I have several friends who are habitual cheaters. I only know one person who cheated once, deeply regretted it, and has not cheated since. I'm not saying my word is truth, but it is my experience. I do think it's similar to alcoholism in the sense that once you cross that bridge, you better always be cognizant of not putting yourself in the position to cheat (or drink). One example is having a rule not to have dinner/drinks alone with a female co-worker--no matter the circumstances.
Just have to quickly add my WW to the bunch. When we started dating I was actually her EA (2-3 months) before she actually broke off with her current boyfriend. It was very innocent but if you just look at the pattern it is the exact same thing that happen to me only she isnt 18 anymore, has kids and was married. I never ever thought of it that way until a few months ago.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
