Trying to heal from WW

[sandi2]

I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation.

Without expectation is the problem. At this very moment, I dare say you are thinking this friendship thing could be the route to restore the relationship with your W. That's your motivation, so you will be disappointed over & over again. You'll try to make yourself more available to hang out with her (when she doesn't have anything better) and run to her requests (which could be many). If you try to back off, or refuse to be her errand boy, plumber, or whatever........guess what she does? She pulls out the friendship card and uses it to beat you down. Her viewpoint of "friends" is not the same as yours.

Here's the thing, and I'll speak from the WW view point. The very name of wayward wife should be a strong enough warning for any type of relationship, but for a LBH to be BFF's with her..........is just crazy! She's a user. She'll take advantage of your generosity and use it to her benefit. In the meantime, you are hoping every day her feelings will turn to love......while she has zero romantic feelings or thoughts about you. In her eyes, you are just a nice-guy who can't say "no" to her.

My memory is not what it once was, but at the moment I cannot remember a case on the board where the friendship route worked with a LBH and a WW. I believe MWD promotes friendship if possible, and she had a thank-you note in her DR book from a couple who claimed it worked for them. However, their story was not given, nor was anything said to give the impression there had been an affair. So, if the couple is having problems that doesn't include betrayal, cheating, deceit, etc (like the majority on the board)............maybe it works, IDK. I agree with LH and Steve here. When you have a case of lost respect, how are you going to be real friends with that person? You don't get respect by being a friend.

Do you think the change in advice has adapted because of the change in attitudes and mindset of people today as opposed to even 10 years ago? Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful? Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?

I don't think the advice has changed, except maybe the "exposure" advice. MWD had to do some housecleaning b/c there were complaints of feeling bullied by certain posters who pushed exposing the spouse's affair. There may have been a broader variety across the board, b/c the threads were moving so fast it was a challenge to keep up. It seemed to have been more people engaging with posting at the time. And, I'll just come out and say........if a person hasn't experienced waywardness themselves, or been married to it, they don't fully grasp the root of the situation. That's what I was seeing. I would see great advice......for a non-wayward case, but it wasn't effective with WW's. I think the problem is lumping everyone into the same classification. The LBH cannot be the softy nice-guy with a wayward W.

When I joined, everyone mostly used the WAS term or MLC. Over time, it really bothered me how everyone was lumped into the same category. Even today, the board monitors will say the same work is required, no matter which category defines the other spouse. While I agree with the general things, 180's, GAL, detach, etc.........I strongly believe whenever there is wayward spouse, a tougher side of love must be applied. I think it's a category all of its own, that can't be thrown in with a WAS. They are apples & oranges. When I read DR, I saw where MWD would advise her version of tough love (although I wonder if some people missed that part), but IMHO, it was the last resort after the LRT, and by then.......it's too late to save the MR. It's more of a self survival mode. Also, bear in mind that the book is speaking to a multitude of readers, where the board speaks to one individual at a time. In other words, we can get more specific about their sitch.

Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.

I was speaking about the board, and the general population in real life. I'm going to ramble a bit by hitting a few highlights and speaking in general terms. With every new generation, there is usually some change in attitude and how they view life. I'm old enough to have observed how the attitude of men and women have both changed in the past few decades. I believe it has resulted from the influence of every source of secular media that surrounds us. Movies, magazines, Internet, books, political movements, etc., etc. I'm concerned for the future of marriage & families, based on the sense of entitlement and lack of morals people have these days. Look at our young women that have been influenced negatively by the feminist movement. Look how it's changed men to the point they don't know their role in relationships. They don't know how to be an alpha. They aren't even sure how to recognize disrespect. Women went from burning bras to hating the male gender. When did it become popular to dress and behave like sluts? Where did these attitudes develop? Where will these attitudes take them in the future? Women were lied to, and they bought into it. And men.........well, they did whatever the women told them to do. Men became followers instead of leaders.

I agree with LH and Steve. Cadet gave a very good post about why there are so many nice-guys since WWII. If I can find it, I'll copy & paste. In the meantime, I suspect that's as far as I need to take this conversation.