[Elbereth]

For now,I have not yet received a reply to the email I sent him. However, I do know that he would like to buy-in the house where I live with the children (I cannot buy it because it is too expensive). He wants me to stay here with them. I've been thinking about this but this is not something I want.
In this way he keeps full control of me and the children and if he suddenly returns I run the risk of having to leave the house in a rush. That's why I've already decided for myself that I want a fresh start, not one where he can exert any control over me.

After all, he wanted all this, this was not my choice, but I will protect myself from what comes. I do have control over that.

What do you think about this?

I agree its safer to be free and clear of a tie to him if you are divorcing. Unless of course you could own the home and the loans, but otherwise, why be put in a position of vulnerability? He may be offering it out of guilt or genuine concern for the kids or something else "positive" (ugh, yeah, I wanted all this but I want to be the nice guy), but if you are getting a D and you want less contact, then I think your decision makes total sense. You do have control over that and you should take control over your future and protect yourself. Hugs to you...I know it has to be so hard.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

H was a real clinging boomerang the past 2 years.

I was convinced that he was now going to become more of a vanisher, but I have my doubts again.

Oftentimes the MLCer remains whatever “type” they are for the duration of the crisis. It’s in their core make up of themselves. H is going without talking/clinging to you, but he is reaching out to father, mom, and so on. It’s part of his path and his hidden internal needs. Just because he doesn’t contact you, or more follows your wishes that he doesn’t, does not denote he is, or is becoming, a vanisher.

The “type” is a MLCer’s “majority of the time” default outward expression of how they handle/ignore/run-from their feelings. Clinging and emotionally all over the place. Boomeranging back and forth between both lives and both ideals. Vanishing, poof, never look back, emotionally ignore, and run toward that new wonderful life. These paths are all built upon deceit and lies, to and of themselves. The path is of their own making and therefore is usually not undone until the crisis is undone.

Since my journey started, 2 years ago, we as LBS start looking madly for an explanation that can explain why our H/W can become the opposite of who they used to be. I have read an awful lot, but many of the things I read I did not understand, let alone that I could place them or apply them effectively.
The longer your ride takes, the more everything becomes clear.

I also had this with the principle 'going dark'. I did not understand what this meant. Only now do I really understand that this is to protect yourself, and I can say with certainty now that this was really necessary for me, and will certainly be necessary in the near future, if only for the divorce in a businesslike way to be able to approach. I am a way too emotional person, I don't think I will succeed otherwise.

Time is certainly a gift.

Things do get clearer as one progresses.

Going dark is very useful for protecting one’s self.

For now,I have not yet received a reply to the email I sent him. However, I do know that he would like to buy-in the house where I live with the children (I cannot buy it because it is too expensive). He wants me to stay here with them. I've been thinking about this but this is not something I want.

In this way he keeps full control of me and the children and if he suddenly returns I run the risk of having to leave the house in a rush. That's why I've already decided for myself that I want a fresh start, not one where he can exert any control over me.

After all, he wanted all this, this was not my choice, but I will protect myself from what comes. I do have control over that.

What do you think about this?

In November H stated he didn’t want a divorce. The Christmas holiday visit was reported disastrous, especially with the discovery of OW2.

Two years is lots of time, and not much time - at the same time.

Going dark does protect one’s heart and mind. That protection come as a wall and hardening of the heart. It takes specific energy and direction to keep your heart soft and squishy.

This wall is normal and comes as a feeling of indifference. Well, actually less feelings, like numb or muted. Your feelings, responses, reactions, and care about H, his words, his actions, his behaviours all become attenuated, become less. These are not gone, just currently less amplitude.

Indifference will not last forever, it does roll back later on. During this period of noise-free regarding a wayward spouse, is excellent time for the LBS to discover their values and beliefs; who they are deep down, without their spouse in their mind and heart.

Going dark can have a dark side, when one doesn’t realize what is happening. Being feeling free, and feeling better, when H is not around and when not talking to him, might cause you to incorrectly decide certain things. Make decisions based upon beliefs and values. Then consider those and challenge them against the bright light of logic and reason. Do they stand the test under that cold non-feeling scrutiny?

Do not make decisions based solely upon feelings. Feeling change and those decisions usually are less than ideal. The same goes for decisions bases upon the lack of feelings.

That probably appears paradoxical given the above reasoning about indifference and cold logical scrutiny.

This is a counterintuitive time for an LBS. One’s beliefs are being discovered and hopefully strengthening those that serve, and altering or discarding those that don’t. This takes time, during which we still decide certain things.

So, your current path and place. Being dark with H is providing relief for you. I think this relief is propelling you to seek a divorce quicker than you would otherwise. That is not necessarily wrong, just something to be aware of. Remember, your feelings do and will return. Ensure your decisions are ones you can live with and will feel good about later. That only comes from following your deep beliefs, which may at the moment be getting somewhat altered.

You are looking at things business-like. Very good! The house sounds like a buy out is too expensive for you. Ensure you run the numbers, you only owe half of the debt, get alimony, and child support. You need a place to live, and this is for the moment still your home. If it is beyond what you can afford, even with support payments, then it is unlikely you can remain.

However, the not wanting to remain in the house looks a little like a reaction to H, the events of Christmas, and your new found going-dark indifferent feelings. It feels good to finally be out from under that yoke of attachment, right? The control of our life becomes our’s again. All good stuff! And quite intoxicating at first. Be patient and let those emotions subside somewhat before making decisions. Look deep, look to your beliefs and logic.

The suspected events of a sudden return of H - you having to leave in a rush - are unlikely post divorce. As is any control H would have over you or your life. The truth is, for the future and the present, H only has the control you are giving him. Your fresh start has little to do with a house - it has much to do with you.

I live in the same house, same yard, same furniture, same dishes, bed (new sheets after a couple of years ), TV, decorations, and so on. Yet, I have a “new” life. A fresh start as it were. I cannot escape myself anymore than XW can outrun her past or self. One’s fresh start is in their heart and mind - make it based upon compassion and forgiveness. Find those values and beliefs and decide things with those tenets of life.

I care about you Eagle. I respect you and your stand. Standing becomes more about us than the marriage, relationship, our spouse, or MLC. Stand for you.

Divorce is a piece of paper. True, it does change our lives, especially the business side of it. Marriage is a formal arrangement and relationship, and divorce is just the dissolving of that. And through all of that - marriage, kids, life, divorce - there is always you. You remain. You are most important. Make decisions which you can live with, for you are the one that does.

I unabashedly share my views and encouragement with you. I was quite touched that you thought highly of my path and are wanting to walk a similar one, and will provide what I can.

Do me a favour and list, privately or share if you like, the reasons to move and sell your home; without H being one of the factors, for post-divorce he won’t be.

D

[kml]

I think her point is that if H retains part ownership of the home after divorce, he still WOULD be a factor in her life.

[kml]

However - given that your children are teens, and staying in the home until they have finished high school would minimize the disruptions in their lives, is there some way to make this work for you? You might want to speak to an attorney about ways to structure this do you are best protected. Is there a way that H gives up any rights of occupancy? Do you pay market rent and remaining house expenses are split according to income, or do you simply both split the mortgage, and maintenance costs? Is the house profit split 50:50 on its sale once your youngest have graduated?

[Eagle3]

H called me this evening. Unfortunately, the conversation was absolutely not good, but now I know which direction he wants to go. And this further reinforces my feeling that I must effectively become financially independent from him.

At first he absolutely does not understand why I currently do not want regular contact with him for now. He would like to come and stay in the house with the children soon ... and he also wants me to be there. I told him that this was not going to work for me, that when he comes to visit now, that I was going to stay somewhere else so he could spend a few days with the kids. He absolutely did not understand this.

He also talked about the divorce, first in a friendly manner.
That he would like to buy the house, that I would get half immediately (by the way I am fully entitled, but in his eyes he gives me a gift) so that in the meantime I can already buy something else and for example rent it out for the time being, and that I could live in the house with the children for free, until he decided to return, and made it clear that this would not happen in the first years.

Then I honestly asked him how this could last if he suddenly had to return for his job, or if he wanted to visit our children, he wouldn't be able to stay here overnight, or if someone else came into my life. Then suddenly it was a lot less friendly.

No one comes into his house without his permission, he is not a toy. Literally his words. From then on rent will be paid or I will have to leave the house. He also started talking about the fact that several people (mainly his family which is the truth) had been in the house in recent weeks and probably already had a good time on his wine ... and this without him!

Basically, these are just a few examples of what I mean by the control he wants to keep, and I don't want that anymore. Not for myself, but certainly not for the children.

We talked about alimony at the time and things went completely wrong there too.
The bottom line was that everything I said he was constantly going against it and wanted to provoke a discussion.

@DnJ, I continue to sincerely believe I should follow your path and I will.
Please always give me your honest opinion, as you did again today. I really appreciate that because it makes me look at things in a different way and I really need that. One thing is certain, we are dealing with a different kind of MLC’er, you with a vanisher, me with a clinging boomerang and therefore the approach may be different.
Today I still don't feel any hatred towards him, not a shred. It is and remains very clear that he is in deep crisis, hence the understanding and acceptance. But I know I will have to take the distance and push it through to be independently, because he will continue to do what he does today if I accept his proposal.

The house where you live today and have also lived with XW is yours, if I were in that situation I would certainly not leave our house.
But unfortunately it is not possible in my case. And I can live with that perfectly. They are only bricks after all, and I will be able to buy another very nice house with the money I get from the current one, but that will be mine, and mine only.

I will definitely make up the list and share it with you. But I think I have already mentioned a few things here why I should not continue to live in the house when he buys it.

@Kml I hope you have enough information to understand what the situation is today. I have already talked about this with the children themselves and they find it absolutely no problem to have a new beginning, in a new home of our own. Thank you for giving me good advice.

I sometimes feel that this forum and therefore all of you are the only ones who really understand what we are dealing with.

[Eagle3]

And DnJ, thank you for giving me an insight of the type of the MLC’er and the reasons why they mostly remain the same type. This was completely new to me.

[kml]

He sounds like he wants to keep you as his “Plan B”. Funny how they don’t want us but get so upset at the idea that we might move on and find somebody new.

I’m glad that you will be in a financial position to buy a home of your own. If the kids are ok with moving, then I would take that approach. H can buy you out of your share if he doesn’t want to sell the house - HE could rent HIS house out while he’s working away.

You confronting him with the reality of what divorce means is interfering with his fantasy world where he gets to have his cake and eat it too.

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

I agree with kml, looks like H was trying to keep you as plan B. As soon as you showed signs of not, he gets mad. And yes, threatening that you will have to pay rent and such is pretty illuminating of where he is.

Be business minded and continue moving forward.

It is really great your kids are understanding in all of this. Of course, they are following their Mom’s lead.

You so got this.

D

[Eagle3]

This morning I had H on the phone again. He wants to come for a few days and is angry that I will not be in the house when he will be here. He thinks many people who divorce still live together under one roof. There was enormous anger again. Is this the right decision to do this and not be here while he's here? The kids don't like this either just because they fear how he will react to them all week. But then I think it is better to do this now, there will come times when they have to go to the other country alone to visit him and then if there is something wrong I cannot immediately do something which is not the case now. I won’t be far away from them.

Can I send him something so that I can explain to him why I cannot or should I leave it this way?

There is the fear again unfortunately.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

I wouldn’t leave XH alone in the house. It sounds like the kids don’t want to be alone with him either.

When my XW was coming over during the first week or so after BD and moving in with her OM, I didn’t let her wander around the house - she left. And I was ensuring things didn’t go missing, and then we start splitting assets with some things already gone. She didn’t like it. Too bad! She left. (I didn’t like either but I followed the advice I was given.)

This is business. His visit is not reconciling, he still has an OW, and is still wanting a divorce. You know you can tell him, he is not welcome at the house and to stay somewhere else. You and the kids are willing and looking to a new start, and new house. (Making the best of a horrible situation I realize btw).

Divorce is messy. H is thinking and wanting some Hollywood fantasy life, divorce, movie, blah, blah, type thing. A wee bit of the reality of his situation is smacking him across the face at the moment. Good. Now, don’t you go walking around on eggshells. Stand your ground and utilize boundaries.

... there will come times when they have to go to the other country alone to visit him...

No, they are over the age of 12 (unless your locale is different) and they get to choose who they live with and how they visit them. With one at 16 and two at 13, H has little say and control over them.

As my lawyer pointed out to me, strictly speaking kids over 12 do choose where they live, and visitation can be forced by the courts. But, a kid will make that visit horrible if they don’t want to be there. So, visitation may be forced but doesn’t endure, the wayward parent will give up long before the child will wear down.

There is no need to explain your actions to H. He isn’t going to listen and will use anything and everything against you. He is actively working to divorce you. Stay business-like, do not welcome him to “your” home. If he insists, fine, then he can sleep on the couch in the basement, and look after himself. You and the kids have lives to live and things to do.

Suggest he stay somewhere else and visit the kids away from the house. You can use the reason, we are divorcing.

Depending on his reaction, there are legal avenues you can take. Speak to a lawyer and learn your rights. You may not need to enact them. Knowledge is power, and to know before you need to know is most helpful. Forewarned is forearmed. This is a business deal gone bad. It gets messy. (((Hugs)))

D