Midlife Crisis and Affair with Past GF

[Elbereth]

May,

I don't know. It certainly makes things complicated, and with no proof he saw her what can I do? My MC said I could get a restraining order to protect myself, but with no proof? Seems that would stress me out even more and stress my son out. I haven't figured out what to do yet to enforce that one. How do you stop someone from coming into the home they own, with the child here that I have no legal rights to, and where all the alarms, keypads, etc are under their accounts? I have to just keep my distance, disinfect everything, get a hotel or pray?

Today I only texted him messages from XW from the parent portal about kid stuff. He responded to me as if I was asking so I just posted his responses on the portal. Very odd...as if he was distracted. I usually only pretend to be him when I manage expenses as I pay the bills.

Then he mentioned he may pop in tomorrow before he heads up for skiing in the pass. Which is odd; I thought that was where he was? And he was supposed to give me back the car he is using on Thursday not tomorrow? Believe nothing they say. It's so right. I have no idea or proof of where he has been the last few days. I'm hoping I am not around if he pops in tomorrow. He didn't ask me any questions, so I didn't respond to his texts. Not responding is odd for me, so he may ping me later to ask if I am okay or something.

Yeah, the ring on his pinky grossed me out too. I felt nauseated. Weirder that he was also wearing our ring too. When I saw it I said "is that your mistress's ring?". He scoffed as if thinking "she is my girlfriend, why are you using the word mistress", and said aloud "mistress?". I said "what else should I call her?". Then immediately said, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but if you would not wear that around me, I'd appreciate it. It makes me feel ill". He answered okay and that was that. I hadn't seen it since. I couldn't tell if he had it on on the zoom call as I didn't see his hands much, but it wasn't on the hand I saw.

Its so weird. Sometimes I feel like I am in some nightmare and I'm going to wake up. Thank goodness that we both have had our first doses of the vaccine, but I still don't feel safe. Her state is not doing as well as ours. The pandemic adds a whole new dimension to this experience. I'm also sad so many others are facing worse stuff than this. So I try to count my blessings. It could be worse. I'm not having a good night. Can you tell?

[Joe2017]

Hey Elbereth, hope you're taking care of yourself.

When we find out that our wayward spouse wants a divorce it hits us hard because it's a surprise. Then when we find out it's another person, it hits us hard because it is so counter to what we believed they were capable of. Well the truth is that they have been planning or thinking about it for a lot longer than you think. And they have been talking to the AP a lot longer than you think. They have done more things with the AP than you think and more frequently. And they enjoy the AP a whole lot more than you. Sorry to be blunt, but it is not easy to soften the blow.

I am 99% sure most wayward spouses exhibit the same patterns. Lies, cake eating, gaslighting... even displaying very blatantly that they are with the AP. Like that ring that your WH blatantly wears, my ex changed her OM's text ringtone to a very obnoxious sound. It would play all night at full volume for every text. They advertise this crap. They want us to leave. They want us to give up. They want to get in our heads. It took me a year to realize that the "girls trip" my ex went on was actually a trip with the OM... that happened about a year before the bomb drop. While I tried IHS, she left the OM's gifts around the house for me to see after she returned home at 3AM and 5AM in the morning. Very blatant, while spewing lies the entire time.

DBing is a really strange thing because it doesn't ever seem like the right thing to do when it comes to conflict resolution in a marriage. That's because it is not. You can't treat this like you used to when your marriage operated normally. All of those behaviors backfire every time. Being nice to them actually makes things worse. Don't believe anything positive that they say, it is almost always a lie.

DB and GAL is for you to reboot your life. It does not involve your spouse. It may involve some version of them in the future, or it may not. If you get good at DB then it won't matter. If you GAL your az off, it won't matter. DB and GAL is for you, and you alone.

Reading the LRT makes us believe that the wayward will see us in all our glory and change their mind if we GAL. This may work if your spouse is looking at the beach from the window of the hotel. But as soon as their toes touch the sand and the cool water splashes their legs, they are lost in the ocean and all of its promises. The reality is that if you are here on this message board, your spouse has probably already checked out and is on vacation.

So how do you treat them? Like a college roommate. Like the cashier at the grocery store. Like a bank teller. Like the person you have to work with that you put up with every day. Polite, but impersonal. Not rude, but not attentive. Professional, but not personal.

We all hoped that this community would be able to help us save our marriage. None of us can promise each other that result. But if you keep DB and GAL then we can promise that you will upgrade your life.

[SteveLW]

I am grateful that they do love me, will still stay here with me even if he isn't here, and all of that.

Elbereth, I do not mean to burst your bubble, but where else would they go? I know at 18-20 I didn't have a lot of options for where to live. I just want you to look realistically at EVERYTHING right now. Your emotions and rose-colored glasses will cloud your judgement, and you will put significance on things where there is none. I can completely relate.

For instance, just as an example, sometimes the WAS (one that is not in a PA) will want to scratch their sex-drive itch and will condescend to have sex with their LBS post-BD. We tell LBSs that it is okay to go ahead and do that (again as long as they are not in a PA!), but to have no expectations and affix no significance to it. I'd say 90% of LBSs cannot do that. I know I fell into that same trap. "She is willing and is actually initiating sex with me! It must mean she is changing her mind!" Yeah, no. Because the minute the R comes back up the LBS (mine included) made it clear that they still want to D.

So try to step back and look at things objectively. One of the best way to detach is to try to separate reality from what you want it to be. It is a constant struggle. The mind has coping mechanisms that will try to convince you that things are one way, when they are really another. Again, actions are more important than words. But even actions should be taken with a grain of salt.

Remember: Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does.

Onward and upward!

[SteveLW]

Steve is another one whose S never moved out and he reconciled, so I think he's a good person to have on your thread and a great example of how to DB while in the same house, just like Wayfarer. There aren't many of us in that boat. (Though as Steve will be quick to remind you, his wife only had an EA, not a PA, or he'd have walked... haha said with love, Steve!!)

may, love you too! LOL And please understand I know it is easier said than done. But I have religious reasons as well as personal reasons for having the line for that boundary/deal-breaker drawn where it is. (IE, I could move on and be free to remarry if a PA was involved.)

[LH19]

Steve is another one whose S never moved out and he reconciled, so I think he's a good person to have on your thread and a great example of how to DB while in the same house, just like Wayfarer. There aren't many of us in that boat. (Though as Steve will be quick to remind you, his wife only had an EA, not a PA, or he'd have walked... haha said with love, Steve!!)

may, love you too! LOL And please understand I know it is easier said than done. But I have religious reasons as well as personal reasons for having the line for that boundary/deal-breaker drawn where it is. (IE, I could move on and be free to remarry if a PA was involved.)

May you made me spit my coffee.

So I am not religious so I do not know the answer does the bible distinguish between and EA and PA?

[SteveLW]

Steve is another one whose S never moved out and he reconciled, so I think he's a good person to have on your thread and a great example of how to DB while in the same house, just like Wayfarer. There aren't many of us in that boat. (Though as Steve will be quick to remind you, his wife only had an EA, not a PA, or he'd have walked... haha said with love, Steve!!)

may, love you too! LOL And please understand I know it is easier said than done. But I have religious reasons as well as personal reasons for having the line for that boundary/deal-breaker drawn where it is. (IE, I could move on and be free to remarry if a PA was involved.)

May you made me spit my coffee.

So I am not religious so I do not know the answer does the bible distinguish between and EA and PA?

It talks about fornication being the only reason for D. EAs are a hotly debated subject about whether or not it qualifies. Regardless my personal line is drawn at a PA based on my personal beliefs on the issue.

[LH19]

It talks about fornication being the only reason for D. EAs are a hotly debated subject about whether or not it qualifies.

Well back in biblical times there were no computers and cell phones so the information is out dated. Just think if you wanted to send a nudey pic back then you had to hire a painter and then have them hand deliver it.

Regardless my personal line is drawn at a PA based on my personal beliefs on the issue.

This is where you run into trouble Steve. Everyone doesn't share your personal beliefs.

IMO EA/PA is all semantics. Once TRUST is broken and the genie is out of the bottle its hard to put back in.

[may22]

Gottman talks about betrayal being on a spectrum. Here on this board we're mostly dealing with the most obvious and egregious of betrayals, but Gottman also talks about the tiny ways a partner can betray another, letting them down, choosing work over family time, the SSM. We all have to draw our own lines of what we'll accept and what we won't, and I'm sure none of us are totally innocent of some level of betrayal. I know my H considers the SSM a slow-motion act of betrayal, me turning away from him time after time for years. That adds up. Not to excuse him or anyone... but I do agree that the decision to stand or walk is a very personal one. I know a lot of LBSs (at least the ones here... I'm sure there are plenty who walked away without a second thought) have a total knee-jerk reaction to want things to go back the way they were. it is important to detach your emotions from the sitch (yes, I know! easier said than done) so that you can really think through what matters to you, your values, what kind of person your S is, all of that, before deciding whether to stand or not, and thinking through what standing might look like for you-- there is a whole lot of variety in that space as well.

For Elbereth-- you remind me a lot of myself. I said and felt a lot of the same things you're feeling and saying. For me, the control/boundaries thing was huge and I really didn't understand it. I want to dig into that a bit. (AlisonUK had some incredible posts on my thread on boundaries in the early summer, June/July I think? If you want to find them.)

"You can't come home and spend time with your son if you see OW without quarantining and testing before you return." This is not a boundary. This is an attempt to control his behavior. And it really seems impossible to enforce, anyway. I agree that a restraining order is probably a bit over the top. Also, is seeing OW the only way you think he'd be engaging in COVID-unsafe behaviors? Is it about OW for you, or the combination of his affair AND being an idiot about COVID that is really getting you? (I ask because if it was me, I *know* the affair part would have been a major portion of my feelings about it, even if I couched it even to myself in the COVID part only.... in fact, now thinking about it, I had a very similar situation last Feb., when my H went on a business trip to AP's city and I said if he didn't break it off with her then, he wasn't coming back home.)

Think about this. What if he weren't your husband? What if he was a family friend who wants to hang out? Once you decided you weren't comfortable seeing him for COVID-safe reasons, wouldn't you just... not see him? You wouldn't have to explain anything, even.

So maybe try this on for size:
"If you return from this trip and aren't prepared to quarantine in the house and get a COVID test after 3 days, I'll be at a hotel." The boundary protects YOU, it doesn't control his behavior.

The kids make it complicated, I think, especially because you don't have legal rights here. So I would balance it with what is in the best interests of the children. I think you said before he'd been living in the basement-- do you imagine he'll go back there? is that enough distance for you? Can you and the kids wear masks and stay 6 feet away from him at all times? open up all the windows so that you get a lot of cross-breeze? I'm sure you can figure something out. Just remember you only control you.

HUGS.

[Traveler]

^^ Well-written by May on boundaries.

Working on not controlling (or being controlled) is part of almost all of our journeys.

[SteveLW]

Regardless my personal line is drawn at a PA based on my personal beliefs on the issue.

This is where you run into trouble Steve. Everyone doesn't share your personal beliefs.

IMO EA/PA is all semantics. Once TRUST is broken and the genie is out of the bottle its hard to put back in.

Agreed. All I can do is share my personal opinion....it is up to others to decide for themselves! Same with your advice. They can take or leave it. No sweat off our brows, right?