I am not detached, Pack19 part4

[Pack_19]

Yeah, that's what married couples do.......have chit-chat about the kids that day. Sorry, but she wants what she wants from you and toss what she doesn't want. Maybe she feels somewhat insecure about her parenting skills, IDK. As I previously stated, I think it's just her way to keep her nose in your life....via the kids.

Hi Sandi, as always your advice gives me both strength and a slap of reality. Thank you for taking the time to write this post. I will process it deep inside my head. This is exactly how I feel about these conversations, is something you have when you are married. She continues to claim I never talked to her when we were married and honestly I am starting to believe it is true. Was I too focused on my career and making money? did I miss on having bed chats with her? Is that because I was not happy or because our marriage was lacking? I know these questions dont help me, all I can do is become a better communicator and I am working on that day and night.

I saw one of my adult children go through that experience. It's awful.

I lost it, my heart went race mode and I started asking her who that was and how she could have the moral to start a relationship before we are divorced (10 points for old Pack...). I must have looked like a desperate idiot. I am going running now before starting work to get my head in a better place. This will not happen again, I need to be a rock for my children.

She talks out of both sides of her mouth, b/c she also told you not to change for her, b/c she wasn't going back to the M. Neither of you can communicate well with each other, due to the high emotional charge. She's still very angry and takes it out on you, by blaming you for all her unhappiness. It's not your job to make her happy! It never was!

I am learning a lot about this now, meeting my own needs and being happy in a way that I do not depend on any external input to be happy, complete and to have a clear mission in life. She told me I do not put my children first, and that is what she expects from me. I spent yesterday afternoon 3 hours at the doctor to get a vaccine for S2 because we have made a mess with paperwork after W came running back from Germany and I have lost track of many things during the time I was still there and she came to Spain with both children (what a mistake btw, S7 has forgotten everything about Munich and I came here thinking I could get my M back only to see W with OM now, how could I be so stupid and naive... I will learn for the future)

It depends on what you are working toward. Obviously, your conversation with her left no doubt that you are still waiting for her to decide to give the M another chance. So, if you were trying to not show your cards, you failed. Now what do you do going forward?

I have been thinking about filing, giving up and moving on. I approached her with the idea of seeing where she stands but it is very clear now. I never meant to hide any cards, the day I start rebuilding my life, the day I cut on alimony to fair levels, I file for D with the conditions I want and I take control over Pack's life, that day I will close the door to her. I wanted to check what to do with that door, probably because I am still attached. Not only did I get an answer, I got to see OM call her, which will fuel my GAL power, for me.

See Pack, you haven't let go, and until you drop that emotional rope you have tied to her.........you aren't going to be as happy as you could be if you let it go. Will it take a divorce for you to let go?

I think so, my sister told me yesterday she cannot wait to see me ask for D, she says it is as if I needed that to finally move on.

It's a strange thing about WW's. On one hand your W has contempt for you, while on the other hand she wants to keep a line attached. Women are curious and some are very nosey. If she doesn't hear through friends how you are doing or what you're doing......she'll go through the kids. She wants to know all about your personal life, and just you wait......when the kids get older, she'll be asking them all kind of questions about daddy. They are her link to find out if you are moving on, and if you are seeing another woman, or if you break down and cry in front of the kids. These are simply examples, and may not be any she would choose. If you read other threads, you'll often see the WW living with another man, yet wants to be friends with her LBH. That's what your W wants. But you can't be friends if she has such a hard heart against you.

Again, I don't have the values to do this so I don't understand. She is moving on, meeting people, going out with OM when I cannot put my heart in a conversation with a new woman, and yet she wants to see how I am doing. DOes she not know she is destroying me already, does she want to see every piece she has shattered me into? why? I always thought there was love for me left somewhere inside of her, I think that was another big mistake on my side.

She doesn't miss many opportunities to repeat this same old narrative. Aren't you sick of it? Let me tell you, there's some people in this world that just won't turn lose of their resentment and their version of what really happened. There's NOTHING you can do to change her mind. I've tried to tell you that you can't become good enough to win her back, b/c that's not the problem. The problem is her mindset........her hard heart. She chooses to have this mindset. Do you understand what I'm saying? She has chosen to not accept any responsibility and by blaming you for 5 years of unhappiness, she feels justified to see Om and to continue to give you hell. Hatred does terrible things to people.

I do understand and yes I am sick of this. Actually something I mentioned to her is I cannot believe she has not moved on from that full you are guilty mindset and she said she made a decision being very sure of it, that she might have made a mistake but her feelings now for me were all gone. I think what I need is a lot of space for myself, to get away from these conversations, from any proof of OM and to be with myself and ask me deep inside, Pack, if ever in the future there was a chance to get your family and W back, what would you want to do?

Was it sadness or something else? I'd guess it's more self pity, but I might be wrong. The things she said in this quote backs up what I said just above it. Look Pack, she is punishing you. She's paying you back for those 5 yrs. She's not going to turn lose of this attitude anytime soon.......if ever. It's her choice to hold this anger in her heart, and claim she did everything. How could she have done everything and you had no idea she was planning to leave the M? It's crazy talk.

I think she feels pity for me and my pain. how attractive right? She did mention a couple of times when we were fighting that she was considering a life without me. When I heard this I became incredibly defensive and pulled away, I know I have made mistakes, I just feel our M was young and deserved a transformation. Perhaps it is too late now, I am not going to sit here seeing her with OM while we are married on paper, I am worth more than a safety net, I am worth a lot, I am a good person with good values and a fantastic sense of hard work and responsibility and I am fun to be with. I deserve more than to be a memory from a deficient marriage and a father who pays expenses every month.

Do you want to know what you did wrong? You GAL, went NC (sort of), and made changes to win your W back. That's why you feel like a failure when she turns to OM. This entire time you've done all this hard work for one reason..........to get your W back. You missed all the times we tried to tell you that it won't work if your motivation is to win her back. You GAL, NC, focus on kids, etc.......... for Pack. It's for Pack's happiness and betterment.......b/c you can't be good enough to win someone who refuses to like you. You just can't. You become a slave to the endeavor of changing for them. How exhausting that must be for you!

Until you give it up and genuinely live your life the way you want........you will remain a slave to the past mistakes. As long as you seek validation from your W, you will feel a failure. Why are you giving her that power to determine those things in your life? Okay, so she feels you were a lousy H. That's her problem at this time. You can do nothing about the past. You certainly can't change her mind. It's up to her. So, leave it alone and move on with having a life that pleases you.

I believe you misunderstood some of the techniques of DBing from the start, and I haven't been able to get you to see differently. So how do you think you can get her to change how she thinks?

You can't work on this MR b/c it's dead and the two of you are living separate lives. All you can do is work on your life without her. Until you understand that point, I don't think there is hope for a R. You have to let her go.

DBing is not a guarantee of saving the M. Nothing is a guarantee, b/c there are two people who have free volition.

I was convinced that we could improve communication, I could become more attractive both physically and emotionally and then the love we both feel for our children would fuel the idea of giving it a chance. I know this way of thinking is wrong, but I am speaking from the bottom of my heart now. I dont know why I keep giving her the power to decide how much I am worth as a man or how permanent my changes are.

I have used her rejection in the past as a way to reinforce I needed to keep working on my changes because I "wasn't there yet" and that fueled me to continue to work on myself, which felt amazing. I guess I am answering your question by saying what I need is to find that fuel in how great it feels to improve, for myself and my own sake, leaving her aside.

I am feeling very bad now Sandi, thanks a lot for your post and your help. I never thought anybody could come between W and me. I guess I had fantasies about how strong or permanent our M was. I need to go through the pain of realizing not only OM but many others might come and I need to sop thinking about her as the woman who sworn to me to share our lives and take care of our children together. I dont understand how I still cry at home and feel so miserable. It has been a year and a half and I should be way stronger by now. I am going for a run now as I said, I need it, and then I have IC later today. I will come and post about the session.

Thank you all for your help! Stay safe and go get what you deserve, it is a world of abundance out there!
((hugs))
Pack