Help.

[97Hope]

How do I handle what's left of her belongings in the house" - it's minor things, like a stereo, some cups, a chair and a few boxes.

Must you do something with them?
I would suggest taking a deep breath (or 10!) and try to focus on what you must do. A lot of times in the beginning you can wear yourself out thinking that you need to "do something!" whether it's keepsakes or stereos.

If/when she asks about them, you can decide. If you need them out of sight, pack them up nicely and put them in a closet or something. But if you don't need to do anything, don't. Conserve your energy for your GAL and your little one.

We share a child, what dynamics are helpful for me to know?

Be the best parent you possibly can. Engage with her and focus solely on her. Don't send pics to your W. Don't text funny things she does, just enjoy her and love her up. She needs you to be a rock.

We share a child together and see each other sometimes 5-6 times a week. How do I manage those visits? Both my inner world and interacting with her?

Breath before the visit. Don't hug/kiss or gush. Just be friendly and brief with the exchanges. Pretend you are meeting your accountant. If you use these trade offs as a way to chat/inquire etc. W will be put off.
Also - look amazing but don't go crazy lol

If she texts me pictures of P how do I handle that?

You can say thank you or not. If she asks a question, answer, but give her SPACE. Let her come to you, but do not, under any circumstances - reach out to her.

What do I do with the letters and keep sakes?

See above #1. I put mine in a box until I was ready to deal with them. They are in storage. I might never get them out. But do NOT go through them right now. No letters, photos etc. Right now focus on today and only today. Will help with detaching.

I am starting to get the message that I too need to know, feel and act like it's done and over.

Yes. You need to realize that she is done. That might change, but right now, she is done (according to her). So you act as if. As if you are fine no matter what. As if you are moving forward with your life. As if you have a life. (If you don't, get one. (smile) GAL (get a life) is key!

I ordered the book and started reading Sandy's rules.

This will help you a great deal. Also read all of the newcomers links that Job posted and read here.

Reading your posts reminds me of where I was in the early days. It feels overwhelming, so focus on what you MUST do. Try not to think too far out in the future.

You will get through this.

[Traveler]

I was about to reply, but great answers by 97Hope! Seconded.

[Joe2017]

Letters and keepsakes go in a box that you don't open for a long time.

When you open the box it should either be because you have reconciled, or because you have healed and it's time to decide what to do with it. After you have healed, it will no longer hurt seeing the items.

I literally just found my marriage keepsakes while cleaning out a box last night. It's been about 3 years now. I tossed it all in the trash.

[Traveler]

Hi JHopeful, a reminder to tell us more about your "goof up" and the original reason for the separation. If you're willing to share--I realize being open isn't always easy even on an anonymous Internet forum--these may be ripe with potential 180s to save your marriage and improve how you relate to others.

I literally just found my marriage keepsakes while cleaning out a box last night. It's been about 3 years now. I tossed it all in the trash.

Mine's been in a box in the garage for 10yrs. Someday! I have bigger boxes to clear out first. (:

[sandi2]

Hi Joe, welcome to the community. Can you give us your wife's reason for leaving in September?

Taking all the responsibility of the breakdown in the MR is not the formula for reconciliation. Unfortunately, some men think it will save time and bypass bringing up various accounts if he simply apologizes for everything & anything. It may have worked in times past when she was sullen over something you were completely in the dark about........but this is not one of those times.

Probably the most difficult task for you will be to stop trying to invoke conversations. You seem to rely on talking as your go-to method of fixing a relationship. It's a natural reaction from a fearful spouse who has been bombed. However, as others have warned, it is the opposite action of what you need to do.

Stop telling her that you are going to take up for the relationship. It will only make her tighten her determination to end the M.

How should you interact? Think of yourself as a customer in a store who has gathered his items to purchase. You go to the checkout lane to make the transaction with the checkout clerk. Your wife is the checkout clerk. The two of you might say a few words, but nothing personal. You keep it business-like. You keep it short, and you leave. You don't ask personal questions, try to get to know her better, or spend more time with her. Nothing about the encounter is personal. That's how you have to deal with your W at this time.

Don't confuse this with anger, coldness, sullen, etc. Be none of those things. Just don't interact by personal questions and statements.

I [censored] up last week. I used sex as a way of seeing if she was truly back in again. I was angry.

Big mistake! Don't test her to see if she is truly back.......and certainly not with sex. You'll learn more about this as we go along. This is a long process, so there's no use in thinking of testing her. Just get that out of your mind.

I used the word "child support" for the first time in a Venmo message. I only wanted to communicate by email for a fw days. When I realized how I was feeling I owned it all and apologized.

I'm not sure what this means, but stop apologizing for everything. Over-apologizing is very unattractive on a man. I doubt she's leaving b/c you didn't apologize enough during the M. And, if you didn't apologize enough.......you can't make up for it now. You can't talk her back. You can't apologize her back. If there was some specific thing you did that tore the MR apart (according to her explanation for leaving), then you can apologize for it and move on.

I want to ask - is there hope I can do anything and I'm also afraid of someone saying NO.

Not in the sense you are thinking that doing something will get her to come back. It's that mindset that causes the LBS to pressure the WAS. The first step is accepting the fact she doesn't want to be in a MR with you. So, instead of pursuing her, you leave her alone.

How do I stay open to a future yet protective of my heart.

How do I move forward from today?

I wrote her this email and would love anyone's thoughts on it or anything else.

First, you stop doing things that expose your heart, like writing those emails. Stop putting her in a position where she has to make a decision to reject you. You are pressuring her! Stop looking at old letters & cards that rip your heart. Don't watch sad movies, or listen to sad songs. You have to purposely have better days. Read self improvement books, watch motivational videos, get plenty of exercise, and fill up the calendar with GAL activities, and stay busy. I can't say this strong enough, that GAL is key! Your health is priority.

You move forward by building your life around your D2 and yourself. Currently, it doesn't include your W and/or a MR. You find ways to get a new life apart from the old one. You focus on yourself, while giving space and time to your W. Space means a time void of you. No calls, emails, photos, social media, dropping by, meet ups, etc. It's as if you dropped off the planet.

My hope is that this email is something at some point you can visit to

This is an example of invading her space. You meant well, but it is emotional pressure on her.

Don't try to be her BFF, swap photos, have late night chats, etc. Co-parenting doesn't mean you use D2 as a tool to get closer to your spouse.

[sandi2]

Joe, I hope you haven't left us. Let us hear from you.

[Jhopeful]

Joe, I hope you haven't left us. Let us hear from you.

Hi everyone. It's been a up and down past few weeks.

I have started a new job that I love and could prove to her very lucrative.

My life was shaping up and then last weekend while dropping our daughter off she asked to for me to come in talk - I declined and said I wanted to wait until my class was done in 2 weeks. She started to cry. I took that as her having feelings for me.

As it turns out she wanted to discuss going to a mediator to make sure the custody of our child was kept civil and pleasant. I told her sure, I just need another week or 2 because I'm busy with my new job training. She was completely fine with that.

I now think the tears were related to me sometimes pushing things off from time to time.

Needless to say I let my thoughts and emotions get involved and imagine things.


Tonight I'm wrecked. She asked for the remaining of her furniture back, which I would rather do versus her coming into my house.

I'm tempted to talk to her and clarify that this is a step she wants to take.

Practicing restraint.

[Jhopeful]

A continuation on my last post from this evening.

I brought over her last heavy piece of furniture and we started talking.

HER:
She said our entire relationship we played out an aAnxious / Avoidant dynamic. She has traced it through the entirety of the relationship. She felt like she had to show me that in fact I did love her.

She hasn't been happy since last February.

She has left the relationship.

She doesn't want to be in a relationship where she has to convince herself that she loves someone, which is what she feels like she's been doing.

She feels like our entire relationship has been the anxious / avoidant pattern

She doesn't see us getting back together ever. She just wants to focus on being good parents.

During different parts of the conversation she said it's over and doesn't see us ever getting back, she has completely left the relationship.

We haven't broken our patterns despite trying and trying even up to 3 weeks ago.

She said we tried so hard for so long.


ME:
I repeated back most of her comments and did my very best to validate them.

I told her that it's a good thing that the previous relationship is over.

And that this space is good for us right now.

And that I love seeing everything sees doing with her life.

That I am creating more space in my life for me and I'm beginning to hold more space for someone else.

I mentioned that I know these are just words but my actions will speak.

As I was leaving I said again, that relationship is over, I feel like it's worth it to plant a seed and see where we are in the future.

It looked like she wanted to say "No" again but didn't want to hurt me.

A woman friend gave me 2 pieces of advice on my way over to her house:
"High engagement and low attachment."
and
"If you do things as a family and she sees how much fun it is with you then she'll want more of that"



_________
MORE BACKSTORY

To answer the question why she moved out in September:

We had a rough year and a half leading up to that point.

I was getting depressed due to the pressures of being the sole provider. In an effort to save the income I took a advocacy role that left me feeling more an more angry. I had a rare knee condition which left me void of any of my real regulation practices.

We went to therapy and didn't have such a great therapist. We weren't communicating well at all.

Covid happened and I lost all my income.

She went back to work as a nurse working 2 12hr shifts a week.

I took a consulting position that ended up blowing up due to the 2 partners fighting. I got angry and even more depressed.


(important to note: I had been depressed before and was able to recover once I went on meds. I am someone that has done a lot of work on himself, before this relationship I was single for 10 years. So I was a bit of a novice when it comes to relationships.)

She and I had grown resentful. The joy was gone.

We had a big fight in August, my pattern was I would retreat. I took a solo trip, I felt energized.

When I came back she said she wanted to leave to have some space for herself to meditate, sew and so forth. We lived in a 1100 house and I work from home so we were around each other all the time.

She actually changed her mind twice on moving out only to finally move out Nov 1.

I went back on meds shortly after.

She saw the changes I was making and made a comment to a mutual friend, "wow Joe is really done a 180 and he's crushing it, I want a piece of that!"

We spent Thanksgiving together as a family and things started to become really nice and tender. She said she wanted till February to see where we stand. I mentioned I wasn't sure if I could wait.

She replied in a letter a few days later saying how she hadn't left the relationship and sees us in the future living in a sunlit home. I avoided commenting in part because I was scared but also because I wasn't sure how things could change and wasn't sure I trusted it.

We spent Christmas together and shortly thereafter I was really stressed over trying to cram a test in before starting my new job. I wasn't sleeping and we had a big fight right around New Years.

The anxious avoidant patterns played out continuously.

Earlier today I happen to see photos of the first 2 years of our relationship there was a lot of joy.

_______________

So back to this evening I didn't follow the Sandi rules tonight.

At the moment we are going on a hike this Saturday as a family.

A friend told me tonight that I should really just let it 100% end and move on and focus on my self and learn from my mistakes and who do I want to become.

And I'm heartbroken.

[Jhopeful]

Sorry everyone - I forgot to add these details to the origins of our story.
_________
Back story:
Me 47 - grew up in NYC, ambitious, kind, traveled, been doing personal work for 15+ longest relationship was only 1.5yrs.
Her 36 - small town in upstate NY, nurse, kind, family orientated. She was married for 10 years and got divorced aprox 2 years ago - she said the relationship was over about a year before that. She left him and may have gone on dates or slept with someone before the divorce was final. Her ex shamed her all across town. More on him later


We met on a bus in Mexico in Jan 20017. I was attracted to her beauty. When we got off the bus I noticed right away she was about 5'' taller than me. While out our first night I thought, wow, even if we don't become intimate this is a beautiful kind, soft woman. She was traveling with her friend and we all had a wonder time over the past 5 days. We became intimate on the last few nights. She cried and described that she'd hadn't had that kind of experience before. I became drawn to all of her. She left, I was on extended holiday.


When I returned back to the US in march we started long distance dating. It was fun and light. We met in different places across the country about 5 times. Then in September she told me that she wanted to move to Colorado to be together. At first I was apprehensive and told her I needed to think about that. Then after some thought I said yes.

She moved out in January2018 and within 2 weeks of moving here she had a back condition flare up pretty badly. Bed ridden for 3days I was making bed pans out of cut paper towel rolls. Finally we called the ambulance and she underwent surgery. I took care of her for about 2 months, It was overwhelmed by the responsibility - all told that seemed to become a trend.

She had repeated problems all the way through our relationship even up to today. They stem from neglecting her back pain while at work and creating bungling discs.

She rebounded in April, we had a small fight or 2 before we found out that we were pregnant in July of that year. Both of us were at first scared but we decided it was something we both wanted.

I was in shock for about 3 weeks. My income was not steady and I felt like there was still a lot I didn't know about her.

We moved in together in Sept of 2018 it was a construction zone as I was remodeling a place. It stressed us both out for a few months.

I had a rare knee condition flare up and began seeing doctors in Sept 2018. It took me 7 surgeons and 3 surgeries to find out what was really happening. It weighed on me heavily, I grew depressed.

One evening I recall mentioning something to her about a perspective I was having, in other words, I was trying to share a trigger, something “about me” and either I mis-spoke or she took it personal. I have learned a technique to say this and it felt like she had never heard someone speak this way before.

We went to a Tony Robbins Date With Destiny workshop. I staffed it, she attended. At the end, of the workshop the person writes a love letter to their partner. When she gave it to me I froze. I typically do savor things and wait for the right moment - but what had started to become clear to me was 2 things. I did feel smothered by her, I felt a lot of obligation from the day she arrived. I loved her but yet there was still this feeling I couldn’t put my finger on, I felt like there had to be something more to her - or she was really just so simple. Her lightness and kindness was carrying me and I thought it was enough for me.

Leading up to Poppy's brith I stopped having sex with her. I think the stress got to me. Unfortunately our communication wasn’t strong enough. Additionally she never made any real advances towards me.

I did feel like I was living in Josh’s shadow. She often would say that I was controlling, her BF told me once that she felt that she never worked through that relationship.

__________
I just spoke with a friend who gave me some words of personal encouragement and I'm talking with a friend tonight who's partner left him and then came back after 4 months.

[Jhopeful]

I'm realizing I'm posting out of order.

This morning we were texting and she wanted to get off deed on a property we were both on. She wanted to qualify to buy a house that price is protected by affordable housing laws here in Boulder.

She was discouraged that she thought she did't qualify.

I started to removal of her on deed and began to poke around about why she thought she didn't qualify. I did this because I want to make sure that she stays close to home and in Boulder
PLUS
I went down the rabbit hole of high engagement low expectations and to be a knight in shining armor.

I did in fact find out that she does qualify. I sent her a text message "You qualify" a few hours ago and didn't hear back yet.

Again, this was all this morning.

Grateful and looking forward to responses.
-Joe