Quote: Up until that point, he'd rather stuff his own desires than be upfront and run the risk of being the only one who's horny. (THIS IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT LD PEOPLE) There is no risk of him being the only one! And yet this fear is so strong and so real that he'd rather forego sex altogether than be wrong.
Yep, I don't know about your husband but with my ex it consumes EVERYTHING is his life. He will give up what is most important to him out of fear of being the only one who wants it.
Very sad and something I don't understand. Guess I'm just too aggressive. I've always figured the only way I'm gonna get what I want is to go after it. Waiting around for others to possibly offer it to me has never been an option.
Quote: I think he has gotten lazy and become dependent on me to put HIM in touch with his own desire.
Maybe what he needs to learn is that it is OK and safe to desire. I'm curious, does he take this role in any other aspects of his life? Cathy
I'm also thinking that if the LD spouse never HAS to do anything other than show up, they likely never WILL. Like you guys, not sure how to break this cycle, other than growth, differentiation and true intimacy. I have high hopes for HTR...
Quote: I'm also thinking that if the LD spouse never HAS to do anything other than show up, they likely never WILL.
Tim, I think whether a spouse ever does anything other than show up depends on the degree of importance they put on the relationship. Some take longer than others but, if the relationship is important to them and they see that the relationship could possibly end due to their actions they will eventually do more than just show up.
With my ex his relationship with his children and me was important but not important enough to step outside that comfort zone he had set up for himself. It was easier for him to move onto another family and someone who revels in the fact that all he does is show up.
Bottom line, all any of us can do is grow, remain true to ourselves and hope they will follow our lead. If they don't then we at least don't end up damaged by their actions. Cathy
Quote: Bottom line, all any of us can do is grow, remain true to ourselves and hope they will follow our lead. If they don't then we at least don't end up damaged by their actions
This is so true. I think the thing we keep forgetting on this board is that our LD spouses aren't exactly happy with the current situation either. The worst case scenario isn't that we'll give up and decide to move on or even that our attempts at differentiation will cause our spouses to leave. The worst case scenario is if we do nothing and our spouses leave anyways.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
What does it say about someone who will withhold something they know you want or need until you ask for it? What does it mean when someone will deny themselves something they want if you don't go to them and ask for it?
It says that they hate themselves and want to take the rest of the world down with them. It's masochistic and sadistic at the same time.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
We ALL engage in passive/aggressive behavior at times. Some times, it is even the right thing to do.
Example. I have a brother that is always in need of money. Over the years, I have given him about 60 grand. The last few years, he wouldn't directly ask me for the money, and I wouldn't offer it when he was in "trouble". I wanted him to ask me directly so that I could tell him why the answer would be no.
He drained my mother dry of funds until the day she died. Most of her money came from me. I never cut her off to get to him, that would NOT have been right, and would have been controlling, but the day she died, his flow of free money ended. In this case, giving him what he wants is the wrong thing to do.
The point is that P/A is the right thing to do on occasion. I can think of any number of times when such behavior is the right thing to do with a child.
I love upfront and direct confrontations, BUT, there are many ways to communicate. If your spouse is playing the P/A game with you, maybe it would be wise to directly site an example and ask why.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
HP, It is nice to know I'm good for something around here.
You know, if my spouse snuggled with me on the couch, like that's been happening and sat there with no panties and giving me an obvious peek, the kiddo would be tucked in bed so fast he'd not know what hit him. Sheesh, cause not only would the peek give me a raging hard on, but the added wiff of available and ready to roll female would result in severe zipper strain.
My wife's idea of couch snuggling for the past number of years was me at one end and her at the other putting her feet on me with a blanket covering her. As a non-foot kinda guy, it left much to be desired. As with the other HD's I'm in shock and agony that your guy is wasting opportunities like this.
Although I'll have to say that I'm no where as good as Ferris was in A) sneaking out and B) being the cool kid. Ok, I was an abject failure at both in school. I was a terminal late bloomer and geek. Sigh.
Scott, -Who has tomorrow off to go see S8's field day at school and will see if the poor child can perform athletically after choosing parents with zippo athletic genes.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
I agree that we all do it sometimes, and I can even see times when it would be the "right" thing to do, but in the context of a loving and committed relationship it is NOT right. In my case, I can't be *sure* that is what is going on, I was just wondering out loud. Unless I'm pretty sure it's the case, I would see confronting W as being probably useless and possibly hurtful, so I'd be naturally careful about that. She may not even see her behavior as hurtful, at least not consciously, but rather as a defense mechanism. She may not even be being P/A, she may simply not be picking up on cues from me - rather, I may be guilty of wanting her to read my mind! Just something I'm wrestling with...
I'm thinking there actually is a third option besides being clueless or passive aggressive. It might be that our LD spouses are frightened by their lack of arousal. Maybe if I take my shirt off in front of my H, he knows that I want sex and he isn't passive aggressively waiting for me to demand it, maybe he's just uncomfortable because he knows the appropriate response is arousal but he's just not feeling it. This could be true of HPs husband with the sofa sich or any number of the situations involving the LD wives.
I think this might be true because if I were to take it up a notch and start touching my breasts there is a better chance that my H might get on board and HP's H tells her that he might get on board if she grabbed him or verbalized her desire. There might be something similar going on with the LD women when they tense up. For instance, Tim's wife might be thinking "Tim is fondling my breasts. I know this should be arousing, but I'm not really aroused. What is wrong with me?" and at that point she tenses up.
If this theory is true then once an LD guy has a hard-on, there should be no problem and this is true in my situation. With an LD woman it would be trickier, because a woman could mentally feel unaroused even if she obviously was physically.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: With an LD woman it would be trickier, because a woman could mentally feel unaroused even if she obviously was physically.
AND it's a lot harder to tell... erect nipples don't always signal arousal (I think that's what you just said)... Great theory! It would explain a lot. It would also tie in with the Quantum response model, not to mention the whole fusion/lack of intimacy thing...
