Sex Tips for HDWs with semi-willing LDHs

[eyesopened]

Cause the thing that was jumping out at me in regards to the argument was how Mrs. Roper-ish your husband was forced to act in order to ML to you that morning. Is this really what you want? You said that if he ever put you in that position ONE TIME (which I think it is kinda unproductive to put such stringent rules on relationships, don't you?) that it would be the last time.

I disagree that my husband had to act Mrs. Roperish that morning. He could have simply initiated nonverbally or he could have initiated by saying what HE wanted. He knew what I meant in my note and he was testing (after 20 years of marriage, we know each other very well). BTW, the only issue here is initiating or starting. This has nothing to do with what happens after we start where we both feel comfortable asking or saying what we want verbally and nonverbally.

If you've read PM, you'll recall that Schnarch discusses the idea of not wanting to want (I believe the couple was Warren and Carol). That's been a problem in our marriage in the past with some real passive aggressive behavior toward me by my husband at times. There's nothing Mrs. Roperish about him acknowledging that he WANTS to ML and WANTS foot rubs rather than acting like a passive partner who's reluctantly allowing these things he asked for to be done to him. There's no begging or magic words involved. To get what he wants, he only has to let me know verbally or nonverbally without putting the desire or "want" back on me as in "will it make YOU feel good" or "do YOU want to". He knows that I'm truly remorseful for having turned him down in the past and that my promise never to turn him down (and I won't ever make him feel like he's begging or being demanding) is good because I've never broken a promise to him.

Passive aggression from him has been a common pattern in our marriage (never at work or with anybody else), and it was his anger management counselor (who's also served on a presidential commission on domestic violence) who told me that I had to be direct and had to set boundaries and immediately enforce them if he crosses them if we wanted our marriage to succeed.

Every marriage has its own dynamics and we've been married for over 20 years. One of the things he found very attractive about me is that I am direct and upfront. I wrote in another post that he grew up in a family similar to the one in the book and movie, The Great Santini (including a USMC officer father, southern belle type of mother but his mother was alcoholic, clingy, and manipulative, and physical and emotional abuse). He had no sisters, he attended a military academy when they were still all-male, and the women he dated tended to be passive, especially in bed. His mother was constantly trying to set him up to marry her friends' daughters (nice, docile girls from their small southern town where his parents were big fish) while also making him feel that sex and men were generally disgusting.

When we met, I was truly his peer. We were both AF officers. He was one rank above me, but I had more people under my supervision. I was completely independent and living halfway across the country on my own in a big city away from friends and family. When we became lovers, I was the first woman to give him a BJ (he said that most of the women he'd dated preferred to be passive in bed) and I was the first who expected him to reciprocate (which he loved). He loved that I was a "nice" girl parents liked, but was also self-sufficient and thought sex was normal and fun. As I've said before, I'm the LD spouse when it comes to physical sex drives, but I love ML with him, want to be a great lover to him, and have promised him that he NEVER has to worry about being turned down.

While a brief explanation like this in black and white may sound unemotional and cold, there's no way to truly express the patterns, nuances, and emotions of a whole marriage.

What I've found most helpful are Michele's books and KLA tapes, and she's constantly saying to find what works and stick with it, and this is what's worked in the past in our marriage. I also think that some of you are missing the fact that what I did really worked for both my husband and me this time.

He was probably pissed (or maybe just sulking) when I gave him the note explaining that his accusation that I was keeping him from finishing the house because I was DEMANDING that he let me rub his feet (the house was supposed to be completed a year ago, I didn't start regularly offering to ML and to rub his feet until a little over a month ago, and I only offer when he's not doing anything else and is sitting there with me). He left on an out of town trip the next day and was gone for the entire week. He didn't call me at all while gone although he usually calls almost every night. I didn't call him because I figured he'd call if he wanted to, he probably didn't want to talk to me then, and it's our routine for him to call since he's often busy even in the evenings. He came home late Friday night and I was already in bed, but I was wearing NOTHING except his favorite perfume (something he said he'd like me to do every night, if possible, whether we ML or not and which I'd been doing for the past month). So, even though he hadn't talked to me all week, he knew I wasn't holding a grudge or sulking, that I wasn't rejecting him, and that I was still standing by promises I'd made him. And, I woke up in the morning with him wrapped around me and we made love.

I guess I don't see why another approach would be better since this one worked. He also knows that if he wants me to initiate physical touch like ML and rubbing his feet, I'll happily do that when he's ready and able to promise that he won't use it against me. Based on past experience, the apology and promise will probably happen within the next few weeks. On the other hand, if he somehow truly perceives my offers as demands, he knows that he won't be bothered with them for now, and that this issue hasn't spilled over into other areas of our marriage and won't be affecting my feelings for him.

I really don't see how he loses. I love and respect my husband, and as I've written before, my motivation to change was the discovery that he felt hurt and rejected when I turned him down (usually because I was tired, busy, angry, etc.).

Michele and Schnarch both say that the LD spouse generally controls the frequency of sex in a marriage. I've turned all control of this over to him, the HD (very HD) spouse. I will happily and enthusiastically f__k him and give him foot rubs, back rubs, and all other similar types of physical touch whenever, however, and whereever he wants. It makes me feel great that this is something I can do for him that satisfies him and makes him feel loved. The only thing he doesn't get is my permission to use this as a source of vulnerability and bad feelings for me, which would put us back into a downward spiral not only in this one area but our whole marriage.