Still Learning...

[LH19]

I watched my other exposed friends snuggle in close with their partners and children; meanwhile I was imagining dying alone and it made me feel really, really down.

This is what all the craziness is about Sage. You can write all the post you want about you being twin flames but it comes down to this one thought. You brain rationalizes everything else because it is trying to protect you. Your brain is hardwired against rejection. 10,000 years ago if you were rejected from the tribe you would surely perish. Our brains do not evolve fast enough. In time your brain will understand you are safe and surely you won't die alone.

With time and space you will understand that it's not about your husband at all. It's about the loss of control and stability in your life.

[may22]

The net net bottom lesson of all of this is that I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. Niceness enhances his guilt and shame; distance triggers childhood and M trauma. I can't win.

You can win, Sage. YOU win. You focus on your own healing and prioritizing that and your children. You WILL win in this. He may be left behind as you heal and grow and become from this whole traumatic experience. That is on him. You are responsible for yourself and you have all the tools to move out of this space happier and healthier and grateful for the growth opportunity.

You're right in that you can't win with him. It is a rigged game. Don't play it anymore.

I think it is clear that I need more space. That I am getting too wrapped up in his feelings, his responses and in essence enabling his leaving by allowing us to play good friends and happy family on his terms. I just need to remind myself of Thanksgiving-- totally on his terms and at the detriment to my own needs-- hold me to this one when I wobble, OK?

okay!!!

But then the Covid exposure really did a number on me. I allowed H to gain a foothold of power over me and my detachment in my moment of vulnerability. I watched my other exposed friends snuggle in close with their partners and children; meanwhile I was imagining dying alone and it made me feel really, really down.

That's okay. Totally natural. We are in a global pandemic, FFS!! I still look around at everyone in masks when I venture out and have this totally surreal feeling, that we're living in a dystopian novel.

I bet you can get that level of detachment back much more quickly than it took you to get there the first time. Dust yourself off, go through the same processes you did before, and you'll be back in that blissful place in no time.

And during all of this I am justifying my every (quarantined) move to him a la Spanish Inquisitions. (I have put an end to that, BTW, I have said everything I need to say about my fidelity and that I won't discuss it again until circumstances change and I will hold firm to this by walking away, hanging up or just ignoring his craziness).

GOOD. Do it.

My lesson is to move back towards detachment and aim for indifference. I am so sick of this.

For me, every time i have gone through mini versions of this process, it surprises me all over again when I realize duh, I'm not detached right now. I'm trying to control things that cannot be controlled, and I'm letting those thing which are outside of my control affect my emotions and balance. And then I just go back to the basics. First, self-care-- the easiest steps, like a warm bath or a favorite show or ordering in. Then level two-- exercise, yoga, connecting with friends. Then some observing of my own behaviors and H's and my responses and starting to purposefully relax my brain, detach my emotions, tell myself to let go. (I still love that dang "you only control what you play" video!! I don't know why it speaks to me so much!!) Whatever your path is to detachment, go back to the beginning and walk the road again. It will be easier this time, and I bet you'll get farther along.

xx M

[DnJ]

Hello Sage

We do teach people how to treat us. However, this is a crisis individual we are interacting with, the usual cause and effect of normal social interactions seldom apply or have consistent results. Do not expect rational behavioural outcomes from an emotionally troubled person. You only can control you!

Your influences upon H may be positive or negative, that really depends upon his interpretation at the time. And we all know how dynamic a MLCer can be.

The real teaching that you are doing - is to yourself. You are teaching you what behaviours you will accept and how to navigate behaviours you don’t accept. Remember, leave H to his path. You do not want the responsibility that comes from manipulating his journey.

So I guess here is my burning question: until I reach indifference, how do I authentically (true to me, true to him) navigate our interactions that do the least amount of harm (to me, to the R)?

Let me re-quote that.

So I guess here is my burning question: until I reach indifference, how do I authentically (true to me true to him) navigate our interactions that do the least amount of harm (to me, to the R)?

Give space and time.

Focus on you. Live your life.

Follow the counterintuitive advice.

Act as if. Behave indifferently until it becomes fact.

The great thing about indifference is our emotions are lessened. Most poor choices or decisions are based upon emotions. With indifference we utilize more intellectual reasoning than emotional reasoning; that usually leads to better results.

So getting to a place of 'dim' or saying no to Christmas morning together goes against both my primal nature and the operant conditioning of my situation. So where do I go from here?

You realize the operant condoning of your situation and want to change it. Excellent.

This ties in with believe, values, and convictions. Indeed your primal nature, your beliefs, are core to you - and are slow to change. It that slow changing nature that makes these tenets such good heading to follow. Emotions can change, and do change, quickly. Following those is the bane of our crisis spouses; don’t want to go down that kind of a road.

So where do I go from here?

Get in your intellectual car, and consider, think, about your values, your beliefs, your nature. Reflect upon them. Strengthen those that you like, are honourable, serve you, and feed your soul. Alter or discard those beliefs that run counter to the view you want.

Look to others you admire, respect, and would like to emulate. Consider their beliefs and how those deep values have shaped them and lead them to their life. Consider if that is a role model you would like to follow.

Take your time with this process, this is some deep soul digging. It takes consistent effort to alter those deep held values within you. Now, I suspect most of your values will be strengthened, few will require altering, and very few will require discarding. However, the codependent beliefs are ones that do need to get tossed out.

This is along those lines of we teach ourselves how to teach others how to treat us.


The mechanics for crafting, altering, and strengthening a belief:

There are four “cars” or paths or facets of your life - physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual. Of those, one can only directly control physical and intellectual. We can only influence emotional and spiritual, not directly control them.

All four paths influence each other. Our emotions can cause certain thoughts; when we get angry our thoughts turn to anger vindictive ideas. Our physical actions also cause certain feelings and thoughts and beliefs. Consider when we smile, a feeling of happiness comes from seemingly nowhere.

Do it. Smile right now. See how you suddenly feel better?

Now frown. A deep solid frown. Big bottom lip. Good. You probably also, without thought, dragged your eyebrows down and even growled a bit. And of course your feelings followed along.

Smile again. It feels better.

Feelings change quickly. And are easily influenced. I just had you run from happy to mad to happy within seconds.

Feelings are fleeting. They are real and temporary, unless they are reinforced.

The physical car: One can purposefully perform physical actions that promote good emotions and beliefs. For example, living a peaceful life. Close the cupboard door gently - every single time. Just enough force to have it close silently and almost elegantly. That single little action, such a minor behaviour, accumulates, spreads to other parts of your life, and has a huge impact.

The intellectual car: Intellect is where you will produce the most gains. This is the wheelhouse of influence. Even your physical behaviours start here. This is the stronghold of mental assertiveness and rational thought. Thoughts influence everything.

We can directly control our intellectual self. This control produces thoughts and actions which influence our emotions and beliefs. This is the kernel of wisdom that allows one to strengthen, alter, or discard their beliefs.

The emotional car: Emotions are born with our subconscious. They are irrational by nature. Emotions are easily influenced, and often without the realization of the influencing. Feelings and emotions are a large part of what makes up a healthy person. We are rational / irrational creatures. It is needed to spend some time within this car and examine our emotions. However, it is good practice to influence when we do this, for how long, and for which events.

With practice it gets to a point where it “feels” like one can actually control their emotions. This control is actually true, the mechanism is not direct though; it is influence, and the accepting of that influence.

The spiritual car: Spirit, faith, belief, convictions, values - our core self. This is our deepest self. This binds everything else. Our spiritual path is influenced by everything we do, think, and feel; and influences everything we do, think, and feel.

Getting a handle on one’s beliefs and values is a enlightening view. It is quite incredible to actually meet yourself for the first time. It takes a very traumatic experience to knock one out of their routine enough for them to examine who they are deep down.

An LBS has an incredible opportunity seldom afforded to others. And for those who avail themselves to this opportunity, do the inner work and craft themselves - They Become.

Do make the most of it. The benefits are so worth it. One does look back upon this time, these efforts, and the changes they make, as the blessings they are.

Currently your beliefs, emotions, thoughts, and behaviours are not in sync. Imagine when they are. Imagine when your four cars are travelling together side by side and not spread out along the path. Imagine what that will be like.


I spoke of mental assertiveness. This is intellect. This is us exercising our control. Mental assertiveness is sword and shield.

Keep you sword sharp and use it to cut through the projections, blame, and justifications. Cleave yourself from H and his path. Your sharp sword is your mightiest weapon and tool in your arsenal. Use it with compassion. Use it for detachment and to find indifference.

Keep your shield bright and polished. This is your mental defence against the onslaught of H and from within. Your shield is strong and broad. It protects you from H’s rewritten narrative and your self-doubts and fears.

Mental assertiveness is your most powerful force at your direct control; and must be wielded with compassion. That caution is, like everything else, for you.

An example of the actual mechanics for strengthening and altering a belief.

Stop speak and thinking of H as a d!ckhead, and having d!ckish behaviour. Do not speak of H disparagingly anymore. This is not about H being deserving or not of those thought - it’s about you.

Remember, craft and strengthen that which serves and feed your soul.

Disparaging thoughts and comments seem like they detach one. This is short lived. Those thoughts influence feelings. Disparaging turn to resentment. Resentment is attachment. One is firmly attached to that which they resent.

You want your detachment to live within your spiritual realm, to be part of that which you believe and influences everything within your life. To detach, one needs compassion.

Remember - counterintuitive.

Compassion, understanding, empathy, all leads towards forgiveness. Forgiveness is freeing.

When one is free from resentment, vengeance, retribution, grudges, judgemental thoughts, and so on, they are detached.

This is very counterintuitive and people usually strengthen beliefs that influence those traits of resentment, judgement, retribution, and so on. Forgiveness is something that seldom is ever found.

Looking within one’s self and seeing those beliefs, and then doing something proactive to alter them, is such a good thing. A good for you thing!

Sage, I empathize for where you find yourself. The internal bargaining and attempting to hold on. (((Sage))) Believe me. Really - believe. It’s ok to let go. It’s ok.

Believe - compassion and kindness. Detachment and indifference. Compassionate indifference.

D

[wayfarer]

Oh sweet Sage, everything prior to this post is absolutely gold. Please read and re-read over and over when you're feeling weak.

Once again. Dealing with an unstable person who demands far more of you than they demand of themselves or are willing to give of themselves is something I was raised with. Honestly I think IronWill is kinda in the same boat but I don't have the added PTSD to CPTSD due to the trauma vets endure. But the stoicism becomes easy once we can recall all of those skills we used to navigate childhood. But for some one like you are coming into this quite blind.

The person you are dealing does deserve kindness and love as they are a human being, but they don't deserve it at the detriment of your own psyche. As DNJ said the responses you receive are entirely dependent on how that response is perceived by H and not by how you actually behaved or reacted in any objective sense. Like May said this is game you can't win. You will not nice him into reasonability or cordiality. Not even nice him back. You will not nice him into a decent co-parent or person. You need to tell yourself that over and over again. You can love him they way you love a stranger. As a fellow person on this earth. You can give him decency and respect, but he doesn't love you the way a H should so please don't give him the love and kindness you would give and H. He won't accept it unless he needs it. It's a waste of time and energy on your part to be in a non-reciprocal relationship. Your kindness and love can't be attached to the expectation that he will return any of it like a rational and reasonable person would. He is not a rational reasonable person.

Also you won't boundary and anger him into a decent person either. He will do as he pleases. He will do as he feels. He will tread on you over and over. What people don't talk enough about in the newbie section, maybe because it's too nuanced, is that boundaries are for you to draw the line in sand of what will be tolerated and what won't be specifically for you. Not as a way to teach someone how to treat you or what you are willing to tolerate. Someone in a crisis mind set like H is in right now, WILL NOT RESPECT THOSE BOUNDARIES. He will push them over and over and over again, because he wants you to be as uncomfortable and miserable as he is. The boundaries you put in place are to remind you where that line is not him, because frankly he doesn't care. But because he will constantly push you those boundaries sometimes becomes squishy just to make things easier for you in the short term. And if you let up on how firm that boundary is he will push the line further and further until you are in crisis with him. He is not a rational reasonable person.

The steps we take are to protect our hearts and our minds from these people in crisis we love so much. I know you love your husband. I know you wish desperately that you could have your family in one piece. I know you wish things were like they used to be. I know you wish you could fast forward through H's crisis. I know you wish you had a crystal ball. We've all been there, but now is the time for you to sit with where things are at in your life, and accept exactly what things are in this moment. No expectations of what you wish them to be. You are fierce and strong. You are intelligent and oh so caring. You will neither fail at single parenthood nor die alone. You will survive this. You will learn to navigate H's craziness in a way that keeps you safe and stable. You just need to trust in yourself and the process here.

Please read the above over and over and over. You need to take care of Sage first and foremost in all aspects. Frankly if you don't who will?

[wooba]

Do what is right for you. How your H respond to it is up to him. You are not responsible for his feelings and his actions.

Abide by your own rules, do not let H (or anyone) affect them.

Keep walking that path and you will get there.

[Sage4]

Hi everyone, it's been a while since I have posted, but I have been reading along with all of your situations and sending holiday hugs to you all.

The past couple of weeks have been up and down. The holidays have triggered some sadness in me, thinking about years' past. Some of the best, most joyful and loving moments in my M have occurred this time of year. My mind is still struggling to compartmentalize those old memories with my new reality. Hard work to retrain our brains, isn't it?

My good moments have been fueled by an inner awareness that no matter what, I am going to be OK. That there is so much outside of all of this that I have ahead of me. If I focus on the long-game I am OK. If I start to pay too much attention to the path that I need to navigate to get there, I want to crumble with the magnitude of it all.

I taught my kiddos how to ice skate this past week. Our first reaction is to look down at our feet, but where our eyes go, our body follows. So I kept encouraging them to "look up, look where you want to go!". Repeating that over and over again was a meditation for me.

My interactions with H have been tough. I feel detached, calm and grounded during our interactions, but nearly every interaction results in a deserved apology from him to me the next day. I don't think that's healthy for either one of us. I appreciate his apologies but would prefer that he doesn't get to that point in the first place. I am also starting to feel like a whipping post for all of his guilt and shame. Guilt and shame generated from within him, for what he has done and what he is doing... none of which is within my control, but yet I am the one he punishes for him feeling those things.

My IC has helped me immensely these past couple of weeks identify that I am really good at predicting where the (moving) target will be and shooting a bullseye every time. H is really good at moving the target and keeping me focussed on the archery game. I need to bow out of the game. Stop looking for the targets to ace. Shrug. Put down the bow. Walk away. (Detach. Indifference.)

We have had nearly a week apart as he went somewhere and I took the kids away for a local trip to the mountains with my mom. It has been a lovely time for me and the kids. And really nice to not have to interact with H at all for 6 days.

I am really dreading the upcoming interactions necessary to navigate a two-week break from school and the holidays. I realize I don't have good enough boundaries for myself ('haha, obviously!' you are all saying to yourselves). I am working on changing that.

I also have been doing some goal-writing about things I want to do with the children next year (post-pandemic), or things I want to integrate into our new life. It helps to remind me that I am alive and creative and very adventurous, things that H can't take away from me or the children, although he used to be a big part in encouraging it.

I have more to journal but will stop there before this gets too onerous to read!

Thanks for all your support, dear ones.

[Rita]

(((Sage))))

I noticed in this post and others of yours that you say a lot about how poorly you are doing when it is clear that you are doing very well, are an amazing mom and are handling a disgusting situation with as much grace as you possibly can. And on this post you write this very interesting and insightful and very not-whiny post and then sort of pre-apologize for it being too onerous to read!

And it seems this is the same thing you are doing with your H. How do I know? I WAS YOU.

You are living in a totally impossible horrific situation with a person who ripped out your heart, stomped on it while forcing you to watch and then began demanding that you make him feel better for having had to rip and stomp and make you watch. He undermined everything your love and marriage and family and business stood for, and demanded that you understand why he must do that. And then you are wondering why you sometimes feel a bad feeling or have trouble focusing. And in between you take your four beautiful children ice skating and call across the ice to your darlings, "Look up! Look at where you want to go!" and that is a glorious light-filled moment they will never ever forget, it will feed their souls -- and then you wonder why you would dread having to be around a man who makes you feel rejected and who makes you question your whole life together and your worth as a woman and a mother and a business partner, you berate yourself for not being detached enough to not enjoy negotiating the practicalities of how to best parent while someone rips your family apart, And in the background lurks an evil husband snatcher who thinks she has a right to destroy five lives for her "happiness." And then you apologize for writing something onerous!

I am being a little hyperbolic here, but I noticed this theme of this amazing woman feeling that she had to apologize, so I want to highlight it so you can see it.

I try not to get involved with anyone new to these boards because it's so painful to watch others start this process, but sometimes someone comes along and just is so lovely and so likeable and such a beautiful spirit that I do start following along. And you, Sage, are one such beautiful spirit.

So stop apologizing. Keep looking up at where you want to go, but take a moment to lie on the floor and cry in a ball and I will rub your shoulder and cry too and say, yes, yes, yes, I know, it hurts, and it's so wrong and not what we signed up for and it will refine us into gold but it hurts like h$ll. You have to feel worthy of that pain too, of knowing that someone hurt you and it was wrong, before you can move on to detaching from it. Otherwise you'll think that you should do better at not feeling things and the temptation is to minimize the things as if anyone should be able to get over them lickety split instead of moving towards accepting the very painful and very wrong things. Worse yet, you'll apologize to H that he had to go through the pain of destroying you -- not directly, but by this simmering feeling you have, and which I recognize quite well. Hope it won't take you seven years to realize that like it did me!

I think divorce is wrong and should be avoided at all costs, and I believe in marriage and even believe that your H doesn't really want to divorce and maybe would come back one day when his blinders are off, but I also know from hard experience that you have to let them go and do that, and that you never have to validate what they are doing. What they are doing is dead wrong and horrible and destroys lives. You will be okay, that is true! You will do amazing things and help your children heal, whether or not H ever returns. But I just don't want you to fall into that trap of thinking you have to validate anything. Acceptance is different from validating. One may have to accept the amputation of a limb to avoid gangrene. But that doesn't mean we should start thinking it's a great thing to amputate a limb or that it's not going to hurt like a B for a long long time and make everything we planned for our lives change. We can one day strut down the runway like Victoria Modesta and know that it all happens for a reason but that doesn't mean that amputation is by its nature an easy thing to do or get over.

[97Hope]

Hi Sage. I don't have a lot to add but only to encourage you in your journey and second the beautiful advice given you. You are not alone.

I'm 3 years post DDay and I was tossed and turned by the emotions of my X for a long time. I think you are strong and amazing and it sounds like you know what you need to do now. Detach.

Detaching takes time and practice. It will help you see your loved one in crisis for what they are while giving you the courage and strength necessary to have boundaries. It's also a loving thing we can do, although it doesn't always feel that way.

All my best to you. Hugs.

[Sage4]

Wow, Gerda, I feel so seen. Thank you, darling you, for spending so much time giving me exactly what I needed to hear tonight.

You are living in a totally impossible horrific situation with a person who ripped out your heart, stomped on it while forcing you to watch and then began demanding that you make him feel better for having had to rip and stomp and make you watch. He undermined everything your love and marriage and family and business stood for, and demanded that you understand why he must do that.

This.

This is probably the most validating, accurate thing I have read about my situation, ever. It is like you stepped into my head and gave language to what my muzzled soul was trying to scream at me. You succinctly shared in two sentences what I have been trying to articulate for the past year. Thank you SO much for this nugget of gold. THIS is the foundation of all my boundaries moving forward. Because it is so true. And so, so cruel, when I see it written out like this.

And then you go on to make me feel like a great mom when I needed it! (FOR THE RECORD: I shouted at bedtime tonight, multiple times. I let them play some stupid Christmas game on my computer instead of reading them a bedtime book. I let them graze on cookies for lunch because I couldn't be bothered to cook, or clean up if they cooked. I took a bath instead. I ignored, then shooed my daughter away a few times when I wanted to write my update post. We didn't get outside for exercise at all today; instead I let them have too much screen time. BUT! I finally joined the elf on the shelf game and woke up to squeals of delight this morning-- he was in the Christmas tree and HOW IN THE WORLD did he ever get up there??? They got their screens taken away for fighting with each other and afterwards I found them all knitting(!) in the lounge. They played imaginary vet with some 'patients' from our abundant household menagerie. And they spent hours making some amazing earrings and ornament gifts with polymer clay.) I think I can settle on I am an 'OK mom, with well-adjusted kids'?

-- and then you wonder why you would dread having to be around a man who makes you feel rejected and who makes you question your whole life together and your worth as a woman and a mother and a business partner, you berate yourself for not being detached enough to not enjoy negotiating the practicalities of how to best parent while someone rips your family apart

Sob.

More of my boundaries are being articulated through your clarity here, sweet friend.

I started writing down my needs and what boundaries would protect those needs. I got stuck. I secretly asked the universe for some help navigating this process, it feels vital but I wasn't sure where to start. And you were sent to me!

I try not to get involved with anyone new to these boards because it's so painful to watch others start this process, but sometimes someone comes along and just is so lovely and so likeable and such a beautiful spirit that I do start following along. And you, Sage, are one such beautiful spirit.

(((((Gerda))))))

But I just don't want you to fall into that trap of thinking you have to validate anything. Acceptance is different from validating. One may have to accept the amputation of a limb to avoid gangrene. But that doesn't mean we should start thinking it's a great thing to amputate a limb or that it's not going to hurt like a B for a long long time and make everything we planned for our lives change.

I could have quoted everything you have written, Gerda. It all resonates so much with me in this moment. But the pieces that pertain to my boundaries and the permission to not validate behavior that hurts me or my children are exactly what I have been stewing on for the past few days. Thank you so much, from the bottom of my heart, for your post.

Hope! I responded on your thread, thank you for stopping by. I look forward to learning from you.

xx
Sage

[may22]

what Gerda said. All of it.