I have to be honest I’m not caught up but I think you may be back in denial. Last I remember you didn’t want to do kid’s birthdays together and now I see you had Thanksgiving together. Then he asks some questions about your whereabouts and I think that got your hopes up. I admire your position to stand but to do so you have to understand there will be a lot of suffering. I don’t remember if divorce is in the process or not but until it’s off the table then I suggest you keep moving forward.
LH, you found me! Thanks for popping over to this side of the forum and sharing your clear vision. Yes, I struggled with the birthday, allowed him to come in the end due my child's begging and things were OK for awhile so Thanksgiving was on offer. I felt very detached, happy in myself and my future the past month, which of course attracted H's attention. I wasn't phased by the attention until I let my expectations get the better of me. Which is why I am now back in the suffering. It's all on me. I see that. And no, I do not want to suffer for 9 years, or even for one more month if I am really honest with myself.
Originally Posted by DnJ
True, indifference does quiet our feelings towards our spouse. We feel numb towards them. This is a healthy and needed place to be in. One really can hear themselves when all the emotional noise regarding their spouse is muted.
Thanks DnJ. Your posts have been so helpful to me and so eloquent. But this line above is my lesson in a nutshell. I get it. I want indifference. I see the value; I am not afraid of it anymore.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
This isn't going to be easy for you. This is one of those counterintuitive things we are barked at about over and over again when we got here. Loving someone but giving them the space to make their own mistakes and find their own way is counterintuitive to someone as warm and loving as you. And this will probably be one of the hardest things you'll have to do. But Sage, you're going to have to do it to survive.
Hi darling WF. I get this, I really do. I have no false illusions that he is going to be capable of doing any self work when I am around and in the picture. And honestly, I am not capable of doing the work I need to do on myself with him in the picture. I am grateful that he is out of my house and I am absolutely comfortable giving him the space he needs. No matter the outcome.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
H may very well be your twin flame. He may very well come back but that requires the breathing room to do so. To do that that means no more playing house because H feels like it even when Sage doesn't want to, or isn't sure. That means not trying to skip several steps like May said and accepting where you are right now with H. Rushing to an imaginary finish line of happy, healthy co-parents who may find it in their hearts to get back together will do you no good. You aren't in a place to move forward to that, even if you miss and love H. And H isn't either. You guys need time to heal yourself. Find yourselves. Learn, grow, forgive and move on whether that's with or without each other.
I agree completely. And I totally get this too. After reading your post, here is where I think I am stuck: we are in a cycle of operant conditioning, Skinner's Box where rats are rewarded with food or punished with an electric shock and learn what works and what doesn't. So when I am kind, open, willing, evolved and inclusive, H mirrors those 'positive' qualities most of the time. When I do the inverse, H mirrors the 'negative' qualities and doubles down on the negative intensity. So like a little lab rat, I have learned how I need to behave to gain the greatest reward. And because it is in my nature to be positive, open, willing, inclusive it is easier for me to behave this way, it feels more authentic to me.
So getting to a place of 'dim' or saying no to Christmas morning together goes against both my primal nature and the operant conditioning of my situation. So where do I go from here?
Originally Posted by may22
I would actually think about this in a different way-- by putting yourself in his presence over and over, you are providing him with a nice big target wall to bang against and blame. Whenever you are there, he can avoid looking inside because he can blame everything on you. Remove yourself and let him work this out on his own. (Didn't you say the same to me not so long ago-- that by interfering with my H's ability to process his own emotions with my own silence or anger, I'm preventing him from doing the internal work he needs to do? I feel like this could be applied to you as well?)
I honestly think every time this happens, every time he is an unnecessary @sshole to you, it increases his own emotional distance from you. If he is anything like my H (and I do think our sitches have a lot of similarities) every time he does this, he knows it and it makes him feel more guilty and bad for being mean to you. That makes him distance himself even more from you because he feels horrible about it, and also drives him to the justification train where the only reason he's doing this is because you're so terrible to be around. My H has told me this was a big part of his monstering behavior and mindset back when he monstered. So don't give him the opportunity to do this. Remove yourself from the equation and give him the space he needs to do his own work.
Yes, yes, yes. Getting my own advice back is golden, thanks sweet May!
I recognize that *I* need more space, to allow myself to detach more, keep dropping those pebbles on the beach at my own pace. But back to the operant conditioning: when I back off, he mirrors that only in an amplified, hurt, insecure, lashing-out-monster way. And I don't know if I have mentioned this in any of my early posts, but in our M, H felt rejected by me (SSM) and that I could be cold and aloof with him at times. So him perceiving me as 'distant' is really triggering for him. Me going dark puts him in a panic and does not facilitate growth in him (and even if he doesn't heal for our M, I am still invested in his psycho-emotional growth as he has an impact on my children).
So I guess here is my burning question: until I reach indifference, how do I authentically (true to me, true to him) navigate our interactions that do the least amount of harm (to me, to the R)?
Thank you guys for being my sounding board. I don't know what I would do without your wise perspectives right now.
