Finding the man I want to be, alone. Pack_19 part3

[sandi2]

I try to talk to women but I still dont have the confidence, even though I notice women looking at me differently, it is just not there.

You don't have male confidence b/c you believed the lies your W threw in your face when she left you. She threw all the blame at you, and you believed it was all your fault.

Last Sunday as we exchanged the kids I left the first one, I did not wait for her to go out as she was leaving her home to go to her parent's and as I was getting in the car she said in a spiteful way "thanks for holding the door for me..." I tried to ignore it but it did hurt and my instinct was to think "I have done a million things for you over the last 10 years and I never expected a thank you, I am not in that role anymore", maybe that was my frustration talking.

Her sarcasm should not have hurt you that deeply. This is what happens when you are trying to win her back. You become overly sensitive to everything she says. Your W is going to take potshots wherever she can.

I sat down with him at 22 to do them and I sent a PM to W saying "Our son has homework everyday, try to sit down with him even if you only have the afternoon, thank you". I really feel like they are a lower priority for her now, old clothes, not giving a f@ck about homework routine, all day long out with them on bars and parks... I am trying to give them all the home stability and peace I think children need

She is not the girl you married. She is not the same mother who birthed your children. You cannot tell her how she needs to parent S7. All you control is Pack's parenting skills.

> not having the chance to make up for my mistakes --- perfectionism; the desire to go back and take the test again in order to get a higher score.
> not giving my children the full and happy family they deserve --- guilt
> W being involved with other men and starting a new family --- jealousy; fear of not being able to control her.
> never having again such a promising career as I had in Munich due to being in Sevilla working remotely now --- Do you have the power to see into the future?
> not being able to remove the communication, empathy and relationship weaknesses I have --- B/c you believe you can't do it. Don't be your own worst enemy. You will find happiness again, but it has to start by believing in yourself.
> never being fully happy again because of knowing I hurt the person I was meant to love the most and carrying this with me as a penalty --- self abasement Happiness is a choice. It is a state of mind, and you are responsible for your own happiness.
> thinking I failed in caring for those things that really matter in live and I will treasure the most when I leave this world --- You were working hard to provide for your family. Stop believing her lies and stop seeing yourself as a total failure.
> becoming a selfish b@stard as a result of so much focusing on myself and my happiness --- self flagellation.

This mindset ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ will only dig the hole deeper. It's one thing to feel regret, but I think you are carrying it over to self-punishment. It's time for you to accept the fact this marriage is finished. You can grieve over the past, but you can't change the past. I can tell you from personal experience that beating yourself to pulp and carrying that heavy guilt on your shoulders will gain nothing but more sadness. Since you can't change how your W feels, it seems you've taken 100% blame for the breakdown of the MR...... and the future happiness of your loved ones. I hope your IC can help you, Pack. You can't move forward while clinging to the past.

[quote]We exchanged kids yesterday and despite I have told her already 4 times and by email that I will not talk to her about money anymore, she came up to me as soon as I was about to leave saying I owe her payments from previous months. She had had a couple of beers and smelt like alcohol and when I told her I was paying what I had agreed with my lawyer to be fair she said a number of very hurtful things in front of the kids.

There shouldn't have been 4 email responses. What happened to you walking away the minute she starts this cr@p? If you have a designated amount of money to give her, then you need some type of personal bookkeeping method showing the date you paid, and don't get pulled in by her. It has to be handled in a business fashion, b/c she has gone off the rails. You can't control what she does with the money you give her, but neither should you be bullied or guilted into paying her more. You can only control your side of the street. In other words, you can only give your kids the best when they are living with you. You could give your last penny to her, but it doesn't mean the kids will benefit if she decides to spend elsewhere. Your guilt over the kids is the adversary in this situation, and it keeps you buried under its weight. You must look at the situation through new glasses. She is not the loving girl you married. Get that through your head, Pack. You have to see her as she is now. Your love for that girl your married is effecting all areas of your current life. It messes with your head! That's why you need to mourn the loss, and be able to let her go. You must protect yourself, b/c she is stepping into another realm of threats that can quickly lead to domestic violence. She is one of the worst bullies I've seen on the board. I don't say this to hurt you, but to get you to come out of your old ideas of winning her back.

It's time you stop meeting in person with her, even to exchange the kids. Have someone you trust to exchange the kids at the pickup location. Talk to your lawyer about it, so there will be some type of documentation of why you feel it is necessary to have an intermedium. You are being threatened, and you better take it seriously.

One half of me wants to help her financially, I once loved this W and I want her to be happy and I want to show her I care about her well being. It's like I want to come to her and say, calmly told me how much you need and let's agree on how to get it to you.

You can't do this, b/c she has chosen this path to take. You tried talking in the past, and it didn't work to resolve the issues. Your emotions have to take a back seat to logic when dealing with this type of woman, or you are going to completely lose yourself.

This is the last time she threatens me with police and lawyers because of money, it is also the last time she mocks when I tell her I love her.

OMG, Pack! You have been saying ILY? And she mocks you? And you want to help her out with more money, even though she treats you like dog poop on the bottom of her shoe?

Can I get some advice please on how I am acting, am I doing the right thing? I feel like my actions to command respect are pushing me away and away from a civil relationship, let alone the hope for R.

I'm not sure what "right thing" you mean. You've talked about the feelings you have, but what actions are you referring to command her respect? Apparently, you thought you'd see immediate results of bringing her closer. Really? B/c I've told you that more than likely, it will make her mad and you may never know if any respect was born from whatever action you took. In other words, you are still expecting quick results. I can tell you that if you give in to her bullying, she will not respect you! You took a quote from MWD's book, and IMHO, applied it to back up your wounded feelings. IMHO, that is your way of excusing or rationalizing your weakness and give permission to nice her back. Sometimes, your deep desire to get your family back, overcomes your ability to stay balanced in taking the best action. Your IC is right. You are still trying to "win" her back. Let her go. You can't win her.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel you did not start out doing the very basic steps that we shared with you. If you were able to go a month without initiating contact, then that's better than where you were. But now, you've been pulled back into her drama, and you are questioning if you're doing the right actions. I was a little concerned when you weren't posting. I hope you'll continue to stay with the board, until you are feeling much better.

As for going NC, it's only progress when you admit to yourself the times you vailed the contact as "needing to discuss the kids". I see LBS's doing that all the time, and it's nothing more than the LBS finding an excuse to reach out to the other spouse. So, if you catch yourself wanting to talk to her, don't try to fool yourself by justifying the contact. Make sense? After all this time, and after all the 2X4's I've given, you should know not to be saying ILY to her. It's sad that you can't tell her your feelings or show how much love you have for her.......but that's just how it is in these type of cases. Unfortunately, if she ever reaches a place where she can just be civil when talking to you, it will probably take years. As I've told you in the past, she has to work out her own issues, without taking it out on you. She has to see you won't be pushed around, mocked, intimidated, etc. before she stops treating you like garbage. It's not going to happen with just one or two actions here & there where you don't succumb to her bullying, but rather a long time of you showing consistent actions of respecting yourself as a man. She's not going to respect you if you can't respect yourself.

I realize this has been a terrible time for you, Pack. I hope my words don't sound too harsh and cause you to stop posting. I really want to see you find peace and happiness. I believe it will come, but not until you can let go of her. I remember you making a reference to your family's traditional roles, and I think you measured your role as a H and father by those traditions. From what I remember, you thought you were doing what is expected and was completely thrown for a loop when your W left. How much your traditional upbringing is causing you to see yourself as a failure, is probably significant. I admire men & women who take responsibility for their mistakes. I am concerned that you may be taking responsibility for your mistakes, and hers too. Please don't believe that you deserve to be punished for the rest of your life. I have found it's seldom all the fault of just one spouse. I encourage you to stay in IC.

Don't give up on yourself.

[Rustymom]

I don't want to give the wrong advice here, but I've been in your wife's shoes. Her over the top and inappropriate reaction is not ok, but I guarantee there is A LOT of pain behind it. And the pain probably has nothing to do with the money. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Her actions are not ok, but she is acting this way because she is deeply, deeply hurt over something. What do you think the money might represent to her? Do you think she sees it as reflection of your value of her? Why do you think this hurts her so badly? It might make a world of difference if you could do a little digging. If you think it's that she views this as an assessment of her value, you could say something like "I am so sorry you are feeling this way. Maybe it feels like this is a reflection of how much I value you, but I promise it is not." Again, not excusing her behavior. I'm telling you what would have helped me a TON when I was acting out.

DH's validations without thought just came across as patronizing. I needed him to see why I was acting like a raving lunatic. What his part in it was. Simply saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" tends to discount why she may be acting that way. Saying " I'm sorry you feel that way. If you think this is because I don't value you/your contribution to our family/that I'm trying to cheat you/whatever" means that you might get it. If you hit the nail on the head, there's a good chance she will de-escalate and soften.

[sandi2]

You are suppose to go radio silent on your WW, not us.

[Pack_19]

hi all!

Thank you for all the comments and support! On the video thing, my L recommended we exchange kids including sleeping over so that all happens at school and I do not have to see her, I second that. Let's see if I can get it done.

On the recording side, thanks a lot for the suggestion but I don't see the need , let me first try what is the first and foremost recommendation from DB and walk away.

@Rustymom, thanks a lot for your comment. I dont know what is happening through her head, I dont want to know and it is not my job to guess it. I wish I could pass on the message you have brought me on to W, the financial situation we have now is also hurting me and it is not a measurement of the respect and love I feel for her, it is dreadful to be measured solely by how much money you transfer at the beginning of each month, or at least having that feeling. I am sure the board will tell me to shut up, but is there a way I could share this with W in a productive manner?

@ Sandi, thanks for your post, it is not too hard and it touches right into my heart. I have continued working with my IC, she is focused on the fact that I do not accept W left the M over a year ago. It surprises me how much pro D she can sound, I argue with her on this based on my principles and her reply is always that she does not have W there to work together so her POV is we are already Dd and she is there to help me stop pursuing W and becoming that man I keep talking about. She keeps offering positive ideas about my future and family (S6, S2 and me)! My last IC homework are to do those things that make me happy, boy am I onto it. I can run consistently 16km+ every week and the diet is paying off, I got some new clothes because I realized I have to get rid of half my wardrobe as it is too loose now and I have opened a tinder account to talk to other women. My priority number 1 would be to get my M back and share all these changes with W but she just wont let it happen. I have been feeling lonely for a long time and I thought making other women laugh and chatting to them would work for me.

I am better, do you want to know how I've realized? I no longer have thoughts of where and with whom W is spending time, I have a list of activities to do with my kids (I bought one of those pro baby carries for trekking and plan to use it as soon as the lock down is over!), I look at women I find attractive differently (I am no longer a failure of a man and my body is basically asking for meat I guess... IC says this is something to celebrate????) and the best one, I am proudly NC (finally!!!!!) and walk away the first one every time we exchange the kids.

On the other side of the card, quite a lot happened emotionally last week. Tuesday we signed our S agreement in front of the judge, it was cold and we crossed paths as I left the office and she came in. My instinct was to smile and say hello but I got no reaction to her. My L must have seen the mess I was because she offered to have a coffee with me and we had a chat about Spain and her family. Then Sunday was what would have been our 6 year wedding anniversary and sadly for me we had to exchange kids. I had gone for a long run to find some peace, then I played it cool, I smiled while picking up the kids, focused on them and left the first one. I think my actor side did a great job, but the truth is I cried a lot last weekend. It's the second anniversary we are separated or divorced or whatever we are now and it brought back to me all the thoughts about the things I had that were so valuable, the life that will never come back, the promise I made to W that I am trying alone to maintain...

This Friday is my BD and I have the kids! Yaaay! On Saturday I plan to order a big paella and invite some friends over for beers, wine and foodies. I have been missing Munich so much lately, occasionally I have thoughts about the life quality we had there, how well society worked, the opportunities the city could offer my children or the friends we have left behind. I guess I need to work very hard to change / improve my conditions from here but that is one thing UNDER MY CONTROL

I keep reminding myself about all the books, posts and audiobooks I have covered since W left and all the changes I am working so hard to implement. It feels I will never get my M back and this triggers a thought in my head that since I did not get her back it must be I have not implemented the changes (sorry my head is still messed up as you can tell) I think I have so I need to push harder on them. Just something I wanted to share, maybe someone here has experienced it before.

Sandi has told me a million times to stop fighting for my M, is that the equivalent of giving up and moving on? I still think my M and family are the best things in my life and I want to preserve them. I keep thinking about my vows and how the weight of the M is now on my shoulders only but I really really really miss being intimate with a woman, not only sexually, but having the complicity and the admiration from an attractive woman. I guess I will keep rowing one day at a time, being a good father, brother, son and worker and waiting for better times, for now I am focused on my children, being the man I want to be and the advice from IC.

Thank you all, the last year would have been worse than the nightmare it has already been without you all and believe it or not, I would have made way more mistakes. I send you all happiness and calm since it is my BD this week and I am allowed to make a wish, I wish for peace for all of us hurting in this forum.

((hugs))
Packs

[sandi2]

@ Sandi, thanks for your post, it is not too hard and it touches right into my heart. I have continued working with my IC, she is focused on the fact that I do not accept W left the M over a year ago. It surprises me how much pro D she can sound, I argue with her on this based on my principles and her reply is always that she does not have W there to work together so her POV is we are already Dd and she is there to help me stop pursuing W and becoming that man I keep talking about.

I think you just need to be honest when writing your posts to us, instead of saying the words you think we want to hear. I decided that's why you write many things that sound contradictive, b/c you would practically copy the words we would say, but it wasn't how you felt.

I honestly don't know what to suggest that might help you accept the M is over. Did you ever determine if she is seeing another man? Wasn't there something about an OM? I remember you were very upset, but I don't think you followed up with us about that subject.

I suppose when you've had enough of it, maybe you will be able to forgive yourself and move on with life. I still question that this is b/c of your great love for your W. As horrible as she's been to you, it doesn't make sense why you would still pursue her, especially since you've seen no positive results from pursuit. I'm not saying you don't love her, but I think your struggles are due to something else deep inside of you. It prevents you turning lose and moving on with another life. You speak more about the sorrow of losing the "family", and how it affects your children, which is understandable. I wonder if you are really pursuing that dream of having the family back together, rather than wanting her b/c you love her so much. IDK, I'm just talking.

If your IC is helping, then stick with her, but if you feel you have to explain your POV, or get her to be pro marriage.......maybe you need to change counselors. Only you know if it benefits you. Is she helping you as much as the board, or helping you more? I really hope she helps you to stop pursuing your W. After all this time, it is hard for me to understand why you persist in doing what doesn't work. You are one of the more stubborn men to accept those old ways do not work on a hard hearted woman. Don't chase people who don't want to be with you.

Maybe I have sounded pro divorce at times, but if so it is b/c I try to make you think outside your own box.

Hope you will continue giving us updates. ((hugs))

[Pack_19]

hi all, @Sandi, thanks as always for following up with me!

I think you just need to be honest when writing your posts to us, instead of saying the words you think we want to hear. I decided that's why you write many things that sound contradictory, b/c you would practically copy the words we would say, but it wasn't how you felt.

I can certainly understand what led you to think that way. I never meant to hide any behavior or contradict myself. I honestly think I could not conceive what it means NC, letting her go, ACCEPTING this... So if I sent her a single message saying "Have a good day at work" I would tell myself "just one message, but overall I am NC" or when I had the kids and there is an event I would think "we should do this as a family, for the kids" but my brain was probably thinking family time= progress towards R. I don't know if I am explaining myself, I have been a mess for a long time, devalued myself and I was not able to LISTEN to the things you were so many times writing.

I still feel my goal is to R and what I need to do is remove myself from her life, however I can also have a better understanding of what I want in a relationship and how I cannot force W to come back. I love her, or al least the woman I married and who gave birth to our 2 children, it was a big mistake to take my M for granted, but really meant to show her my love by giving our kids and family the best I could.

I honestly don't know what to suggest that might help you accept the M is over. Did you ever determine if she is seeing another man? Wasn't there something about an OM? I remember you were very upset, but I don't think you followed up with us about that subject.

A friend told me W had been talking to OM earlier on our separation and then they made out one night, then OM was scared by W having kids. I never confirmed it, as you all know W never talked to me about this, all she said is she is free to see anyone she wants. I cannot express the pain I have been through and now I read my comments out of control and 1. I do understand what you all told me about me digging myself into a hole and 2. never want to go back there again. I think she is not seeing anyone, she keeps spending a lot of time with her cousin (support circle) and family and I see no signs on her, I don't care about this so much, after all the damage she has done to our M and family... all I have to do is get ready for the day there is OM and avoid jealousy by remembering my own value.

I suppose when you've had enough of it, maybe you will be able to forgive yourself and move on with life. I still question that this is b/c of your great love for your W. As horrible as she's been to you, it doesn't make sense why you would still pursue her, especially since you've seen no positive results from pursuit. I'm not saying you don't love her, but I think your struggles are due to something else deep inside of you. It prevents you turning lose and moving on with another life. You speak more about the sorrow of losing the "family", and how it affects your children, which is understandable. I wonder if you are really pursuing that dream of having the family back together, rather than wanting her b/c you love her so much. IDK, I'm just talking.

There is a big difference between the person I married (or thought I was marrying) and the woman she is now. You have asked me many times if I love this new her, I don't, I think she is destroying both our worlds but maybe the new one I can build is even better for me and my children, I don't know anymore. The advice I was given earlier about not doing anything has really sunk in, I am trying to find me as a man again and just letting things be as they are now (big effort against my controlling nature and in search of loving detachment.).

If your IC is helping, then stick with her, but if you feel you have to explain your POV, or get her to be pro marriage.......maybe you need to change counselors. Only you know if it benefits you. Is she helping you as much as the board, or helping you more? I really hope she helps you to stop pursuing your W. After all this time, it is hard for me to understand why you persist in doing what doesn't work. You are one of the more stubborn men to accept those old ways do not work on a hard hearted woman. Don't chase people who don't want to be with you.

Maybe I have sounded pro divorce at times, but if so it is b/c I try to make you think outside your own box.

Hope you will continue giving us updates. ((hugs))

My IC is definitely helping me, but she keeps talking about how I need to set W aside and how she cannot offer me more insights on her because W is not in therapy or trying to make the marriage work, instead she has chosen S or possibly D, so she has to focus on me and my healing. Just on today's session IC insisted that I have a problem accepting the death of my M and W's decision even if I am better and how I cannot blame W for all the changes in my live or how much I miss Munich, the education I had achieved for our children, and my office and colleagues there. I am working so hard on that acceptance, it just tears me appart to think about the coldness W treats me and handles our interactions.

I have been thinking a lot about my own value as a man, my principles, core values and the changes I am focused on right now. Despite that thought about my changes not being there as I cannot fix my M, I am still focused on the exercises from the multi-orgasmic man and the inner changes on my desire to control W and the outcome of the situation as well as all the guilt and responsibility I feel right now. @Sandi, please keep giving me advice on how to best deal my cold-hearted W, I truly appreciate it.

My BD was a great success! The paella was awesome, I bought enough food and drinks for my apparently starving to death friends, the kids had great fun playing mario kart with them and my sister was there to help me at the end of the day with the kids while I cleaned up. Everyone complemented me on how nicely I have set up my home and they loved what I call my car sanctuary (that shelf unit I bought and filled up with 1:18 models of le mans winning racing cars), something W never approved of me having in the living room. It was a good day!

One last thought, all the changes and new lifestyle my W has implemented (the tattoos, drinking again, whitening her teeth, the new clothing style...) I cant help but feel she was not doing it before because of me, it kinds of makes me feel like I was forcing her to be a mom within a family unit when maybe it is not what she deeply wanted. IDK, I know this is an unhealthy thought but I cant help having it, I just wanted to share it with you.

The other day I smashed my 10k PR again and I have new earbuds for my running sessions that sound amazing! I have used black friday to get S6 some BD presents he will love and some new clothes for myself I have started thinking about my future, here, in between Seville and Madrid - London - Munich, who knows. I want to eat up the world again, as I did when I was 19, only now I know I have to struck a balance with remaining the best father I can be. I am better, I am sorry it took me so long to understand so many things, about love, about WAWs, about respect, about what is expected from a man and about my role in this separation. I am nowhere near where I want to be but I will get there, so many things I can and will improve!

Thank you all! I feel like a new man, or at least a changed man! please keep posting!
((hugs)) Packs

[Pack_19]

hi all! Hope you are doing great! Today is S7 BD and he is spending the afternoon with W, I have a party prepared for this evening and we are going to order sushi, his favourite!

Earlier this week I had yet another negative interaction with W. When I was unpacking the kids bag, I found out S7's main school notebook (the one he uses for all but math) was missing from the backpack, so was the belt he uses daily because his pants are too loose and the sports t-shirt had 3 tomato stains on it (I spent a good 40 min using white cleaning products to get it almost entirely away). I sent a PM to W asking for the notebook as it was important. Later that evening she called me, it went like this.


W: Where were you? I called before to drop the notebook. I have found it, it was in my car. If your son forgets his notebook in the car it is not my fault, stop judging me as a mother.
Me: I dont and have never judged you, the notebook is important. Can you bring it?
W: Not now, I am out and I called you when I had it.
Me: I was working sorry, can you bring it later?
W: No, I am not going to go and get it.
Me: He needs it tomorrow for his lessons. I can come pick it up if you prefer. Will you be out all day?
W: I dont have to give you explanations about my life.
Me: I never asked for explanations
W: I will drop it by the school tomorrow morning. Goodbye
Me: Bye


I was so frustrated after this, I went for a run at high speed until my legs were hurting! I know I cannot change her priorities and parenting skills, I am so sick of this I just need to vent out here because I am sure some of the LBSs will understand me. I don't know neither care for what she is doing, all I can say is yesterday S7 videocalled her and she was in a super happy mood with her cousin (support rock as you might remember), so I imagine not much has changed in her head and perspective of our R.

I am of course NC finally and I have focused myself on exercising, doing all the muscle activities in the Multiorgasmic Man book (they are weird and hard!) and most importantly my inner changes and control issues. I got the closing bill from my L today, it is going to be a financially compromised month of December, but I am glad I dont have to see any judge or similar any time soon. The sad side for me is that we are now officially separated in the eyes of the law and I can officially proclaim my failure as a DBer (hopefully I can become a great success in upcoming movies such as "moving on", "growing professionally" and "being a great father"). I continue to check myself for changes and work on myself but aspects as jealousy or the anxiety regarding the mortgage in Germany have not changed so much, I need to work on those.

Enough of W. I have prepared some very cool Christmas decorations for the kids and bought some amazing presents for S7 that I will give him today. Things at work are good, it seems being in Spain is going to be a challenge for me to promote and grow to be a superstar in the team but I can handle the challenge. A colleague told me today if I want a life in between to cities I will probably have to change roles because my team has a very vertical structure and promotion is very problematic, that has discouraged me because changing jobs seems to bring the idea of explaining to a future manager I need to be half my life working remotely from Seville, at least now.

I am chatting to a few women that have shown interest on me, just chatting now, but it feels like a betrayal of my principles. I think it is because I have done such a poor job as a DBer that I still have ideas in my mind that I can do better, that I still have patience and that I can do more for my M. I actually was talking a couple of nights ago on tinder with a very attractive literature teacher, we ended up chatting about classic Spanish authors and I told her a lot about Dickens and Joyce. When we said goodnight she told me "I would have never believed I would end up having a conversation like this here (referring to tinder)". I asked "is that something good?" and her reply was that indeed it was. Many women are impressed about my job and the years I have spent outside Spain and the stories I have to tell, this has been a great boost of confidence for me.

Lately I have been feeling a lot like "fake it until you make it", I think if I put a lot of focus on the man I want to be, I will eventually develop traits of that personality and character, even if I cannot reach the ideal of a calm, serene, strong, confident, attractive, fun and loving man, it is one step closer.

And to close this post, I want to buy a PS5, if anyone has one and does not use it, please tell me! hahaha Just joking. I ordered yesterday "Holding on to your NUTS" after reading the new thread about books.

Thank you all, I have spent more hours than ideally worrying about money issues this month, I need to get a grip of myself again wrt that. All your advice and help means a lot to me, please keep posting.

Pack

[Traveler]

Hey Pack,

I sent a PM to W asking for the notebook as it was important.

Divorced 10+ years. 98 out of 100 times I don't have this conversation. My son or daughter calls because it's their responsibility. This is not normally an essential interaction you have to have.

Later that evening she called me, it went like this. W: Where were you? I called before to drop the notebook. I have found it, it was in my car. If your son forgets his notebook in the car it is not my fault, stop judging me as a mother.

This makes me wonder what your original message said. Unless she's projecting, it was probably something more than, "Hey! Son forgot his notebook. When can we pick it up?"

Me: I dont and have never judged you, the notebook is important. Can you bring it?

1. In my world, the person with custody is the one responsible for checking if the kids have everything and doing any necessary driving to make that happen. 2. You could have stuck to business or acknowledged her. Instead, you defended/invalidated, "I NEVER judged you." Beware of all-or-nothing statements.

"Son says he needs it for school. When's a good time to pick it up?"

Note, I clarified its importance to Son. It's importance to you is not so important to her anymore.

W: Not now, I am out and I called you when I had it.
Me: I was working sorry, can you bring it later?
W: No, I am not going to go and get it.

I've set the same boundary she set.

Me: He needs it tomorrow for his lessons. I can come pick it up if you prefer. Will you be out all day?
W: I dont have to give you explanations about my life.
Me: I never asked for explanations

Pack, I get it, she gets triggered easily. Arguing with her isn't going to help. I'd either stop taking the bait and stick to business, or acknowledge her feelings (always) and opinions (when you agree) and move on:
Approach #1 - "Is there a good time to retrieve his notebook? I could swing by either before 10pm tonight or before 8am tomorrow."
Approach #2 - "Of course not. I meant, is there a good time to retrieve his notebook? I could swing by either before 10pm tonight or before 8am tomorrow."

W: I will drop it by the school tomorrow morning. Goodbye
Me: Bye

"Thanks!" -- I use "please" and "thank you" even with people I don't love interacting with. This could be a cultural difference.

[Ready2Change]

I was so frustrated after this,...I know I cannot change her .. parenting skills, I am so sick of this I just need to vent out

HI Pack,

Dealing with different parenting styles is a challenge. I might suggest taking a look at parenting with love and logic. I use that parenting style.


There is a technique I use called the 5 why's. Are you familiar with it? It helps me get to the real root of an issue.


Here is an example From the internet applying the 5 Whys.

Problem – We didn’t send the newsletter for the latest software updates on time.

Why didn’t we send the newsletter on time? Updates were not implemented until the deadline.
Why were the updates not implemented on time? Because the developers were still working on the new features.
Why were the developers still working on the new features? One of the new developers didn’t know the procedures.
Why was the new developer unfamiliar with all procedures? He was not trained properly.
Why was he not trained properly? Because CTO believes that new employees don’t need thorough training and they should learn while working.


Can't change her, only your behavior and the way you interact with her. As a self improvement exercise, use I statements and the 5 whys here:

Why were you so frustrated?

[Pack_19]

Hi all! I hope the preparations for Christmas are going well and I also hope some of you were lucky enough to get hold of a ps5, I wasn't

@CWarrior Thanks a lot for your comments on boundaries. I think it is a good idea to diverge any conversations about the school, material or clothes via S7. I will try to keep it light on him and be there but removing those conversations will do me good, I think. Today I returned the kids to W after they spent the afternoon here (I got the homework done and took them Christmas shopping for some more tree decorations and I think they had a lot of fun), she was out as always and even I let her know the time I would drop them, she was 25 mins late. She called when I said we had arrived and I asked S7 to answer and he did it without complaints. W asked for me and I took over to hear some excuses about being late, I told her we were warm in the car and would wait, then hung up.

S7 told me last Monday he asked W to call me but she said since I had not messaged her I must have been busy so he apologized for not calling. I told him I am never busy for him with a wink and asked him to call me next time if he feels like it (these are the little feedback pieces that bring me the peace I am doing a good job as a father). S7 loved his BD party, the presents were spot on and we took a lot of pictures, I could not help but having thoughts about past BDs all together but I set them aside and we just had fun, for him, he has also gone through a lot over the last year.

@R2C I am well aware of the 5 whys, used to use them in my first job a lot. I will save you reading all the steps but basically the 5 whys took me to the believe I am struggling to accept her values might be other than mine and that is fundamentally going to change the life of my kids when they are with her. Dirty clothes because of not taking enough care when washing, small clothes for S2 for whom I keep buying new things, leftovers from Friday's school snack in the backpack when I pick them up on Sunday, no care at all that S7 has lost all the German skills he had, not prioritizing homework... these are some examples that frustrate me. My children are number 1 in my life and my values are that being hard-working, organized and clean will help you in your life. I guess I need to work on accepting I can only reinforce those values when they are with me.

I had my last IC session for 2020 today. IC told me I am struggling to accept W left our M over a year ago. I told her I hear her and it adds up to my pain because I want to be in a place where I accept and respect her decision, all her verbal abuse does not affect me and I am happy again alone and with my new family unity (the three of us), but I cannot. She replied that I have done a very good job in other areas, so there is progress, but the repetition is for me to focus on it. I am not sure if she wants to hook me into counseling as it is her business, progress is slow or I am just a very hopeless case. She has also told me my beliefs about traditional family models and marriage are overloading me with guilt and forcing me to think I want back a R that maybe wasn't fulfilling since we had so many communication issues. She has also told me we got M very young an people change, I am not sure if this is BS or a very real truth that should help me move on. Yes we got married young and under difficult conditions with a 1 year old child, but that does not mean my M was leas valuable, I dont know anymore.


I have been focused on my PIES again and removing myself from W's life.
P - Lifting weights, running my December half marathon this week and wearing new outfits I bought last month.
I - Made a list of clear goals to develop further at work and tackling now many courses and services I need to learn to improve my skills in the area I work. Practicing my sexual kung fu as it is called in my book, doing the exercises and learning a lot about female bodies and meaningful sex
E - I talk a lot to my grandma and to my S7, I remember reading somewhere talking to both young and elderly was good. Still focused on active listening whenever there is a chance, at the end of the day improving my communication and empathy skills.
S - I pray more, I pray for me, for the kids and to say thanks for the job I have, my health and all the help I am getting to get out of this emotional hell I am living.

We have an appointment tomorrow at 13 to take S2 to the cardiologist for the first time in Spain. I plan to stay calm and focus on the communication with the doctors. What are your recommendations?

I continue NC and our R keeps dying out, not that I miss being verbally bashed and arguing about money, I am sad things will never improved. I have done a lot for my M and family and it has all been wiped away from my hands. I loved my W and had plans to grow our family in the new house in Munich, I cannot remove that from my head instantly, I haven't been able to do it in over a year time. Right now I just want the pain and fear to stop and to regain my confidence and self worth.

Thank you all, your support and time means the world to me.