Yes, the behaviour of our once loving spouse does defy belief. I found myself thinking and saying I can’t believe what XW is doing. That wording was programming me to not believe what I was seeing. Seeing is not actually believing. Believe it or not.
So, I changed how I spoke and thought of the situation. I am dumbfounded by XW’s behaviour and what she has done.
Dumbfounded is much more accurate wording. And allows one to believe what they see.
It is normal to remain calm and businesslike while discussing things with the lawyer. They are after all pretty calm, detached, and businesslike, so we tend to be the same. Afterwards, our emotions do well up. It’s ok. Feel them and let them go.
Originally Posted by cardinal
For instance, in just preparing to ask for what I am entitled to (as a starting point, that seems fair), I feel conflicted. Partly because I worry at every step I/we will do something to set the MLCer off (fine, that's expected), and it'll do so in a way that shuts down negotiation possibilities. But how to know the best way to go about protecting myself and doing so strategically so that he will think some things are his idea, and therefore be more open to them? Will L really understand MLCer behaviour enough?
It is interesting to consider negotiating possibilities. However, until you actually get there it is hard to say how your MLCer is going to react.
A few things for you to consider. As a starting point, yes what you’re entitled to is good. However, you need not ask for what you’re entitled too. You are entitled to it. You state it. Not ask for it.
That idea carries into the back and forth negotiating as well. You state how you want things to be. The other party can agree or propose something back. Then it’s your turn to either agree or modify and re-propose. Repeat as necessary.
Point is there is no asking. You clearly state how you propose things are to be split. Clearly state. Businesslike. (Ok, it is like asking but more formal and binding if accepted)
If H counter proposes, then you can see where he is headed. It’s then you can explore his “ideas”. Right now his idea is annulment. Don’t think you are wanting to explore that. Right? Even if H gave up everything? (Just testing your views btw)
Originally Posted by cardinal
As my therapist pointed out recently, feeling bad isn't the same as doing wrong. I'm trying to keep that in mind. But I wasn't prepared for how sad this process would seem. Like, even if H suddenly gave up everything, (like your wife, D, to a lesser extent), it would not be a "good" outcome, even though I would benefit. It would still be sad.
Yes this is a sad process. No way around that. You need to feel it. Make time to allow your feelings. We don’t remain businesslike 24/7.
I am blessed and cursed with a XW who gave up everything. I don’t know of anyone else who experienced this to such a staggering degree. My L was dumbfounded. XW is rather famous, or more accurately infamous, in the legal businesses around these parts.
Was my outcome a “good” one? There is no good outcome from a divorce. All one can hope for and strive for is the best of a bunch of cr@ppy outcomes. It’s what you do with that outcome that turns it into “good”.
I did benefit financially. No doubts there. My kids lost their Mom. And to make matters worse they were thrown away. Of course I was thrown away as well. Most LBS are tossed aside so little surprise there. And yes, lots of sadness.
Compassion and empathy are different. Putting yourself into the shoes of someone so depressed, so desperate, so full of despair and pain and torment, is a sad draining experience. To see and feel just how bleak one must be to do what they have done.
Compassion, detachment, indifference, empathy, understanding, hope, forgiveness, peace, love, happiness, joy... This is an incredible path of growth we are upon. The sadness does give way. Sure I’m still sad once in a while. However, much better things fill and fulfill my life.
cardinal, you are on a great path with very good headings, IMHO.
Empathy, and all the other traits, is a skill. And like all skills, it gets better with practice and use. Seeing and understanding someone else’s viewpoint and emotional state helps in understanding and accepting our own. That is a big step towards lessening the sadness. After all, acceptance is just emotional understanding - your’s and H’s.
Keep doing what you’re doing. Be businesslike when needed. Be emotional when needed.
You so got this. (((cardinal)))
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
