I've been think a lot on what you've posted, both here and on your own thread. A few things are surfacing for me. I'm having doubts right now about my ability to stand, the possibility that this is going to work out and we'll actually ever get to piecing. I had always looked at you and your sitch for inspiration... if WF can do this, so can I. And your H seemed even farther gone than mine at the beginning.
But now I don't know if this is the case at all. It seems like your H had a little MLC fantasy blip. Rewound to a younger version of him and an old family friend. Pretended to himself that this is what he wanted and jumped all the way in… but it was never real. He had to take pills to get it up with her, FFS! And she was the one to break down the fantasy for him.
Whereas my H led a full-on double life for two years and planned his escape the whole time. Sex with her was staring into each others eyes ML. She telling him everything he ever wanted to hear, how amazing and smart he was, how much she loved him and desired him every hour of every day. And he just said so much $hit to me about how he felt about her that I’m having the hardest time having faith in the future of our MR, right now. Now I’m feeling that my H was waaaay farther gone than yours, even though his AP lived so far away. And his stubbornness and insecurity and pride are all barriers to him ever doing the work to get through this.
We got in a stupid fight again the other night. He said something slightly rude, I lost my $hit. In the morning he apologized profusely. We’re both scared this is M1.0 rearing its head again. I told him I felt like I was able to give him what he’s asking for now in the spring— optimism and trust and all the rest—but after he broke that trust TWICE I just can’t do it now. He said, you’re telling me your window was open then and now it is shut. And I wasn’t ready then, even if I said I was. My window was shut but now it’s open. Why can’t you open your window? It seems like the only way forward. I said, I don’t know. Maybe in a few months I’ll feel safe enough to do it. I really don’t feel I can, right now, until I feel AP is gone forever.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
2+ years is a long, long time to be betrayed and deceived. It's long, long time to be fighting against demons you can't see. And now, now you can see it all so clearly. But hindsight my dear is 20/20 and you can't go back and change the past. You can't catch on faster. He can't stop sooner. AP can't get out of your lives any faster. Everything that has happened, has happened. It is what it is, and there is no going back.
This is where I’m sitting right now. I know you’re right. But I am going over and over in my head all these things that happened especially during the first year of the A and realizing I was living a lie and I didn’t even know it. How foolish and naive I was. The anger is still there, heavy and overwhelming, but there is a deep and profound sadness too and that feels overwhelming in its own way. Maybe like Sage I can just feel these feelings and be okay with them for now. It is just hard.
And while he is leaning in in some ways, he’s still doing his best to avoid really taking responsibility for his actions. There has been progress here— he no longer bounces directly to the SSM. But it is still there, unspoken but I see it in his body language, his justification for behaving the way he did. he’s tied himself up in knots about not being able to believe that what he did was really all that wrong because that means he’s a bad person, unworthy of forgiveness. He doesn’t like to see me feeling badly or angry because it makes him feel guilty and he doesn’t like feeling that way. We talked about an aspect of the A the other day that I was thinking about and upset about, and H said, I’m really sorry. That was unfair of me. I was like… unfair. Unfair is such a weak word for what it really was. It is like the palest of pink when we’re talking about deep, blood red. Even using a word like “unfair” undermines the gravity of what you did. It shows me that you don’t get it, at all. He listened, he didn’t argue or bounce over to the SSM, but I know he really doesn’t GET IT, yet. And maybe he never ever will.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
You can't expect H to get over AP faster. You can't expect H to be disgusted by her. You can't single handedly determine if and when AP is no longer influencing your relationship with H to your liking. You can't pick fights in the middle of the night because you're enraged.
You’re right. I know you’re right. I just hate being in this place right now. I’m angry with him and frustrated with myself. I have no control over his path. I want to feel safe and I feel I can’t until her ghost is gone. I can’t stand giving her any bandwidth in my head and yet she’s there.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I think it would behoove you to take some time not just writing out your frustrations and playing the blame game, but to genuinely try to take an outsiders perspective and dig into what is really fueling all of this fire. Detangling all of that is going to go a long way in moving forward from this alone or with H.
okay. I think you’re right on this too. (of course you are.) IC also wants me to focus on “deepening the relationship with myself.” I asked her what that means and she said doing things just for me, focusing on what I need and want and feeding myself those things.
I don’t want to make COVID excuses but it is just so hard without any outlets. A year ago I could go out with friends or get a massage. Go to yoga. My friend thinks I should take up something really physical like kickboxing but nothing like that is available in my area— IC thinks martial arts, same issue. I thought about buying a punching bag (which Scout had suggested long long ago) but I felt like H would be so triggered by me using it… it isn’t like walking out the door to go to the gym where I could take out my anger in peace. He’ll hear every punch. But you know what? I bought one last night. So maybe this will help.
I was reading about the stages of grief on someone else’s thread and it was interesting in that bargaining and anger were reversed from the model I’m used to, and I see how that fits my path much better— shock, denial, bargaining, anger, sadness, acceptance. I’m in anger and I sense the sadness just beyond. The only way through this is through it. It isn’t fun work to do but I’m feeling that a lot of the self-care and calming mechanisms I’ve relied on throughout this were just bandaids to paper over the wound. I need to drain it. But the process sure is painful.
IC said to me yesterday in order for a couple to heal from an affair, the betrayer needs to be fully remorseful and take full responsibility for his actions. The victim needs to be able to see a way to forgiveness. Did I see potential for either of those two things? I said, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t… but we aren’t there yet. She asked me what I could do to support H in the remorse and forgiveness part (trick question)— I said nothing, his work to do. She said, yes. Still need to let go and let God.
I do think I can forgive. I am just scared to let myself go there. And I want to see the work on his side before I take that step.
It’s hard. Today he wanted to talk. Said he’s having a hard time with my distrust and anger. That he feels we were on top of a building, at the very edge, a couple of months ago. Now we’ve walked down two stories but you are acting like we are still at the very edge. I said, I can’t read your mind, and for two and a half years there were things happening that I didn’t know about. The affair. You still being in touch with her in the spring when you said you weren’t. So OK, in your mind we are two stories down. I just can’t take your word for it. I want to be two stories down too, but I just don’t know if you’re telling me the truth.
He said, then ask me to leave. If you don’t trust me, ask me to leave. This will never work without trust. It is really hard to tell you I’m here, I’m not going anywhere, she’s gone, she isn’t coming back, and knowing you don’t believe me. You're not looking at the evidence right in front of your eyes. I'm here. I never left. If I didn't want to be here, I would have gone. I’m not actively in love with her anymore. (Note, this is the first time I’ve heard this. Previously he has said his feelings are “fading.” But I also think “actively” is a wiggle word. I didn’t engage on it, though.) But I can’t tell you I hate her and I don’t know that I ever will nor do I want to. I’m trying to keep going down the stairs together and you’re pulling backwards.
I said, I am trying to trust you. he said, you’re hedging. Which is true, and I think to be expected.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
If you want to move forward you can't keep trying to make this restart fit inside the last game played….I know you are doing a ton of work to find your footing after all this trauma, but how much work are you guys putting in to re-build and re-start? Could focusing on that effort in times of anguish, anger, and stress help alleviate some of the bubbling emotions?
Maybe. Probably. I fear that without it, we just fall back into the grooves of how we interacted before and that is a slow train to M1.0 all over again. We’ve been talking about doing what you suggested, carving out time each week reserved for talking about this stuff. Maybe seeing a MC again. Setting down ground rules for how we treat each other while we both work through our own processes. He told me the other night he so many things have been on hold and he wants to build the life he wants to live and he wants to build it together with me, but I’m holding back.
I guess I feel first and foremost my duty to myself is to process the anger and the sadness in healthy chunks so that it doesn’t overwhelm me or prevent me from parenting or work. Second priority is to refocus on me, reestablish this relationship with myself as IC has said. (That work seems less clear to me.) Third priority is to figure out how I do all of the above without damaging what R my H and I do have together at the moment, and preserving the opportunities in the future. Do I just do my best to trust him and move forward? Do I stay where I am and wait and see? Reading about all the sitches here makes me feel that answer is clear… wait and see, then wait some more. I just worry about our windows closing if I hold back for too long.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing