Friendly and kind is different than BFFs. I also agree that friendship is a good foundation for a love relationship. I think the danger is in the only friendship thing. Most of the love relationships are developed along side the friendship aspect of the relationship, not in lieu of. But as I said, we see a lot of WASs that want to keep their LBS around as a friend. Playing family is one of the biggest forms of cake-eating that we see.
Like I said, just talk about it with your coach.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yeah I hear you. I definitely feel like I'm letting him have his cake and eat it too with regard to money he is legally obligated to pay me. He pays child support and alimony, but he technically owes me thousands for his percentage of child care. I've not gone after it because I want him to know that I didn't marry him for money and I wanted to establish goodwill between us. But, honestly, he's been pretty unbending and merciless to me throughout this process. I offered several alternatives to 50/50 that would have given him just as much time if not more with the kids and he wouldn't take it. When I told him I wanted a separation, he insisted that if it wasn't going to be an in home separation that I was the one to leave the house despite the fact that my family had gifted us the 20% down payment for the house. And now I'm letting him get away with paying me thousands less than he owes.
I feel like I'm trying to be generous and nice and he isn't meeting me half way. But then I feel like I was the one to leave so I should show good will. It's all very confusing and conflicting
I think the scariest thing is that I know in my heart that if I stop trying to be so "nice" and I just drop the ball, he will probably just let the divorce proceed. I'm scared of letting go, because I'm pretty sure all hope is lost. Like, yes, he has ratcheted up communication, etc. BUT there's a big difference between increasing his texting and actually wanting to work on the marriage. I feel like I'm grasping at straws
I agree with Steve that you can't nice him back. However, as you have sat on both sides of the fence (WAW + LBS), I believe in you to trust yourself with knowing when your friendly behavior crosses the line into allowing your H to cake-eat.
You have seen some good progress by backing off and ending the pursuit. I would suggest keeping that up, while at the same time making the interactions you do have with H friendly and fun.
Work on detaching. For me, it was helpful to look at this whole process as a long one-- ie what happened in the day-to-day mattered less than the overall shifts and changes happening over a long time. It took the pressure off those micro-moments and helped me put everything back into perspective so I could react from a place of calm and peace.
And in so many ways, you have been given a gift: you know what it is to feel ready to leave the M and give it all up and you have also felt what it feels like to be the LBS. There are so many opportunities here for you to focus on your personal growth right now. What does it mean that you were ready to leave the M? What inside of you brought you to that place? And what does it mean for you to want to stay? What inside you is motivating the desire to remain in the M despite the challenges you experienced over the years?
In some ways, enforcing child support makes reconciliation more likely not less. He may freely walk away from you. He can't easily walk away from his responsibility towards the children. Most LBS make divorce easier for the WAS by sheltering them from natural consequences instead of letting them experience them. It's also, of course, an act of putting yourself and your children first since he's fired you as a partner.
"Friendly reminder--the court says you owe me $1,000 this month towards the kids", "Reminder #2 - the court says you owe me $1,000 this month towards the kids and I have not received a check.", then set a hearing to directly dock his wages for non-compliance. Note, no part of this involves criticizing him, guilting him, negotiating, punishing, pleading, trying to solve his money problems for him, etc.
I think the scariest thing is that I know in my heart that if I stop trying to be so "nice" and I just drop the ball, he will probably just let the divorce proceed. I'm scared of letting go, because I'm pretty sure all hope is lost. Like, yes, he has ratcheted up communication, etc. BUT there's a big difference between increasing his texting and actually wanting to work on the marriage. I feel like I'm grasping at straws
DBing is about letting go. Pressure and pursuit DO NOT WORK. Go back and read Cadet's welcome message and all of the links. If you have read all of that and still think that the way to move forward is to pressure and pursue him and nice him back then I am not sure you grasped the information in those links.
I know you are hung up on the fact that you walked away. However, you tried to walk back and he went the other way. THe roles are now reversed and you need to DB yourself. GAL. 180s. Detach. Let him go to get him back.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yeah. I do kind of have a unique perspective given how I was the one who initially wanted out and now the roles are reversed. I will say (in case there are any men reading this who are trying to prevent a separation), the main thing that drove me out of the door was the intense questioning, the interrogating, the wanting constant accountings of my time. I was not having an affair and I'm not sure if this was motivated by insecurity on DH's part, but what I really, really needed at that point in our marriage was space. And he could not give me any space. So maybe what he needs now is space? Or maybe he is done. Who knows.
I think that the constant demands on me when I was trying to figure my career and self out really contributed to my leaving. It just felt like a pressure cooker. It wasn't a rational decision.
In re: what makes me want to repair the marriage. I think the children and that DH and I used to be best friends and I do not view marriages as just disposable. That said, there has been so much nastiness in the divorce process. I was the one to get emotional and lose it, but he has tried to hide money, etc. and I believe, perhaps wrongly, that some of his more dubious decisions regarding the divorce, assets, custody, have been at the behest of his family. I always had this feeling deep down that they were not good people. I'm not sure how true that is and I go back and forth on how much of that evaluation is rooted in fact v. in my head. But, if this doesn't work out, perhaps it is for the best. Being married into a family like that is not easy. I've been given the gift of distance and time. And with that comes clarity. But with time and distance also comes a tendency to forget just have difficult a situation can be. And a toxic, enmeshed family became all consuming. So, could I navigate that again and remain a sane, whole person who creates a healthy emotional distance? And what does it say about DH that he seems to be letting them direct so many of his steps?
That said, I played a part and I do owe some sort of amends at some point for the part I played. I share two children with that family. They will always be there in the background regardless of what happens between DH and myself.
I know this: I want to release DH into this world with love and without resentment. I know that that sounds hokey, but I mean that genuinely. The amount of anger and vitriol within me is no good.
I also spent a good deal of time with one of MWD's coaches and she also really emphasized the value of feeding the friendship first, that the romance is the fruit of the tree and you need to water the roots of the friendship before you can expect to see fruit. She also really encouraged spending fun family time together. This board is pretty scared of being friend-zoned. If I were you, I'd take all of the advice into account and then decide what makes the most sense for you in your particular situation and what feels right to you.
Originally Posted by Rustymom
I think the scariest thing is that I know in my heart that if I stop trying to be so "nice" and I just drop the ball, he will probably just let the divorce proceed. I'm scared of letting go, because I'm pretty sure all hope is lost. Like, yes, he has ratcheted up communication, etc. BUT there's a big difference between increasing his texting and actually wanting to work on the marriage. I feel like I'm grasping at straws
Yes, there is a big difference between increasing his texting and actually wanting to work on the M... but you have to start somewhere! He's not going to get to wanting to work on the M overnight. You have to drop your own expectations about the timeline. MWD talks about setting mini goals and that might be helpful for you. Journaling can also help, so you can look back and see that there may be changes happening that you don't really notice in the day to day. Don't get discouraged just because he isn't ready to R yet. As long as you see small, positive changes, you should feel good that you're moving in the right direction. But you have to be ready for the long haul-- as they say, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
I agree with Sage-- take the long view, drop the pursuit, but do make sure the times you are with your H it is positive and fun. Also, you may have read here about the cat analogy and not wanting to scare the cat away. Don't go overboard and scare him off of additional outreach and time together, especially because he was so skittish in agreeing to come in the first place. Better to leave him wanting more. I would DEFINITELY wait for him to suggest the next thing, if you can.
I also can completely empathize with the resentment that builds up over being taken for granted as a wife and mother. And, while my MIL is actually pretty great, I sometimes felt like my H prioritized her over me. But again here I would say... baby steps. It is not reasonable to expect that he can go from feeling betrayed and angry about you leaving to not only wanting you back but being ready to address all of his own contributions to the problems in your R.
Question: since you did go to MC with him at first, did he take those things seriously then? And when he was motivated to work on the R, did it seem that he was open to making changes then? Or did these things not come up at the time?
I guess I would say that if the issues were brought up then and he was willing to work on them, then he knows they're there and when/if he's wanting back in the M, he'll be willing to re-address them. Until that point, it may be more like fueling his distancing to bring them up. I know in my case, I have held onto a number of the things I don't love so much about my H in my head for fodder in case it doesn't work out. I look at rooms still and envision what they would look like with only my stuff in them and that feels actually good to me. And I'm not willing to address his biggest issue in our MR (the SSM) until/if I believe he is 110% committed to the M and ready to begin piecing. I know for a fact scares him, that he's signing back up for another SSM down the line, but the truth is every time he mentions it it makes me angry and pushes me away, because it feels like he's just making excuses for his own behavior. I could imagine your H might feel the same way, and expecting him to change right now is just adding more pressure.
All to say, just from the perspective of an LBS, asking your H to go from being ready to D and envisioning a life without you as his W-- and actually having experienced it during the S-- to what it sounds like you want, which is him not only wanting to R but also ready to make big and difficult changes, including major changes to his relationship with his mother, to win you back-- is probably unreasonable and you may want to temper those expectations.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Yes, I have felt guilt over the amount he has to pay me. However, I sacraficed a lot for the family in terms of career. I know DH is anxious for me to get back to work and I have been working intermittently during the pandemic. But, for all of his hints that he wants me to launch a big career, he is the first one to need me to watch the children because there is no school during covid, they were exposed to a covid positive patient, it's a holiday, etc. He seems to want his cake and to eat it too.
I'm not saying I'm not working on a career. I just took a very difficult licensing exam in my state and I had two interviews today. I am saying he has benefitted immensely from me staying home.
