I hear you about the groveling and so on. I fight doing that on a hourly basis. I have to tell myself that talking her back or nicing her back won’t work she is officially a wayward wife. You have gone from the WAW to the LBS now. And that feeling is normal for us to feel. But I can assure you as much as I tried to nice her back and talk her back it didn’t work. The only times she ever showed me any emotion is when I have began to distance. I mess it up a lot a breadcrumb falls and I jump back in. Don’t be like me.
T:11 M:10 K: D5, S7 BD: 9/1/20 WW continues to break up and recon with OM. I paid last fees and pushed the D 5/3/2021 Default Dissolution granted 8/5/21. Glad my D was not busted.
Yeah it's so hard. Honestly, if he was just an ex-boyfriend and we weren't married and didn't have children, I would have just thrown in the towel by now. I hang out with a group of newly divorce women that I've met since I left. They are all WAWs and they all think I'm nuts for even trying to salvage it. They look at me as so pathetic. And I feel pathetic. But, in my heart, I'm an old fashioned woman. I want an in tact family. I want to keep my vows and grow old with the man who I married. I hate that I didn't honor my commitment and stay and fight for the marriage. I hate that I let him go all those months to marriage therapy alone, etc. BUT he is the WAS now. And i have to move forward with dignity. I mean, maybe he wanted out when I left? Maybe that's why he changed his mind on the third child? Who knows. I will say he threw an absolute fit when I left and said "I can't believe you would do this. It's so selfish." Those words still haunt me.
I don't know. Right now I'm just focusing on fixing a lot of the things that he criticized that I've determined he was right about. I do need help with my organization and adhd. I need to get my career back on track. I need to be more stable and less emotional. I do need to let go of resentment towards mil (whether or not I send the letter, whether or not we reconcile, etc) because resentment is poison. But I need to do these things for me. In other words, I'm evaluating my part and working on it, but trying to do so in an authentic attempt at self improvement. I have decided to put off dating other people until I have gotten my ducks in a row on that front. If he comes to his senses during that time, then I will work with him on the marriage. If not, then I will start dating and find someone new. I did go on a few dates since the separation, but I'm just not ready for that right now.
Honestly, it makes me so angry. I actually am a high value woman. And while I probably shouldn't have walked out, I took A LOT in that marriage. More than I think most women would. It wasn't like I cheated and ran off. I've read other threads about guys wishing their WAW would come back begging, but I have done that repeatedly starting very early in the separation. At some point, you have to move on. And I think I'm beyond that point. I think I'll use my time on this board and in divorce busters coaching focusing on improving myself and putting DH behind me. The truth is, everyone in the marriage made mistakes. I need to put my resentment at his family behind me for my own wellbeing. And just let him go.
Then conduct yourself like a high value woman! Honestly, I'm questioning if your recent actions send the message of a high value woman, or is it that of a game playing, manipulative girl. You left b/c your feelings were hurt, and now you admit you've begged him to let you back. But he's not having it. You are chasing the man down, groveling at his feet. A man and his mother, according to your first post, who made you miserable. One minute you are begging him, and the next you say you just need to put everything behind you and let him go.
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One issue I have had (which I think a lot of WAWs have) is that I've made impetuous, reactive decisions based on extreme hurt. I don't say this to excuse my behavoir, but when you are deeply, deeply hurt it is very hard to become centered and just stay the course.
Yes, I agree. And b/c you've made impetuous, reactive decisions based on your feelings at that time, may I suggest you be very careful about the advice you give fellow board members.
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Since leaving, I've also made friends with a lot of other women in their late 30s and early 40s who were WAWs, so think of me as your WAW wife spy (sorry, gallows humor I suppose). Honestly, their levels of guilt and accountability run the gamut. I'm probably on the more repentant and traditional side. I never, ever thought I'd get here. Ever. I do not take this lightly.
Were you hanging out with anyone in this group of WAW's when you made the decision to leave your H? You say you are probably on the more repentant side. What does that mean? What have you done that requires repentance?
Here's the thing, Rusty, I think you were listening to women bad mouth men, and it encouraged or influenced your decision to get out of the crappy situation you were tolerating in your M. Maybe one of them suggested you were being treated like a servant, IDK. I do know that some women leave and secretly hope it inspires the H to see the erring of his ways and pledge to do whatever is necessary to get her back. However, when your H didn't go after you, you started regretting your decision, and probably started missing your home and the family atmosphere. I mean, nothing changed, right? Whatever it is, you know the truth behind it. You don't have to listen to a group of women who are filled with guilt & regret and no longer have a H to love them. If you really were a high, self-valued woman, you would have better things to do than listen to women who try to persuade others that the traditional role of wife & mother is outdated, undervalued, and is for the dimwitted who don't have a career.
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One universal theme I hear from WAWs is that being a wife and mother is hard. Really hard. I know a lot of guys don't want to hear this, but the amount of work that goes into it and the low level of recognition women often receive from their husbands is difficult. Especially when the kids are young. Your career suffers, your dreams get put on hold, your entire identity becomes being a support system for your husband and children. You tend to lose yourself. I'm not saying that men don't suffer too. But this is the woman's perspective.
Universal theme from WAW's? I'm sorry, but it sounds more like script taken from one of the feminist rallies. Look, I don't doubt this group of women include WAW's, WW's and MLCW's......... but please don't allow their sour grape attitudes to influence how you look at life and how your heart feels for your spouse and the M. The more you listen to them, the more it will affect you in negative ways. I'm not saying you can't get encouragement and healthy guidance from someone else, but just consider the source........even on a board.
Are you close to your mother, and can you talk about your feelings and struggles with your H and MIL?
Okay, I've talked your ears off today, so I'll call it a night. Take care of yourself. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yeah no I am done giving advice. I really do not want to take away from the community here or cause any harm.
In terms of me leaving, it was not part of a conscious manipulative strategy or anything (I'm not saying that you are accusing me of manipulating. I'm just explaining my mentality.) When I left, it was more years of resentment and pain that had built up to the point where I could not take it any more. There was little thought put into it. And I own that it was impetuous and immature. It wasn't like there was a plan whereby I would make DH beg me back. There was no plan. It was impulse.
The truth is that my leaving was part my fault and part DH's fault. It was my fault for letting emotions dictate my actions. But it was DH's fault because he was so addicted to criticism and had spent so many years creating a family life where my needs and feelings didn't matter that I was just beyond hurt. So, there is blame on both ends. I have noticed that DH has become much, much less critical of me. I know he is in therapy and I know he knows the constant criticism was a big issue. Initially, there was still a lot of criticism in our co-parenting relationship, but he has improved considerably.
I do not want to come across as engaging in a feminist rant. But I do think there is a reason why so many women are the ones to walk out of a marriage. At least for me, I felt trapped in a pressure cooker of expectations and put downs. And that would, realistically, have to be worked out if DH and I were ever to reconcile.
I'm very close to my mother. My mother loves DH and thinks he may come around with space. My mother has issues with MIL and, consequently, nicely keeps her distance. My mother never fought with MIL or anything, but she has seen enough of her behavior that she just never wanted to develop a close relationship.
Also, in response to "what have I done that requires repentance?" I feel that walking out of the house and filing for divorce requires repentance on my part. As I've said, it was a reactive, impetuous decision made out of extreme pain. That is not the kind of woman that I want to be. I am not proud of the way I ended the marriage. I owed it to DH and the children to hang in there, not bounce on marriage therapy. Yes, DH did a lot to cause that pain. He contributed to the situation. But he was working with a therapist and trying to make it better when I left. And I hate that I turned tail and ran.
But, as I said earlier, I have asked repeatedly for forgiveness and the ball is in his court now.
But, as I said earlier, I have asked repeatedly for forgiveness and the ball is in his court now.
His pride may be part of the problem at this time. That, and his mom whispering in his ear.
I doubt his mother will ever change. I tried talking face to face with my MIL. I tried to get my H to see how she was treating me. I tried being the perfect DIL, just to win favor with her. But nothing worked. The most hurtful part was her sneaky methods of trying to turn my own children against me. She would call right after dinner every night, to talk to the kids. She would pick and drill them, and throw in her nasty remarks to make them think I was a bad mother. When I tried talking to my H, he felt trapped between his mother and his W. When my kids were almost grown, I decided it was okay if my H and kids wanted to go to her house and spend time with his extended family....but I didn't have to go. I never tried to stop him, or make him choose between us. I simply wanted him to stand up to her when she was running her mouth about me.
Finally, I decided I had to protect myself from her terrible criticism, so I chose to pull back and not go over to her house. Not being exposed to that environment helped me. She treated the other DIL's pretty much the same way, but they just took it. I was the only one who had ever stood up to her. You know what kills me? For years, I had worked like a dog for her acceptance.......but it did not change anything. So, I removed myself from the family gossip and I wouldn't ask the kids what she was saying about me. Finally, one day she shows up at my house, and honestly, I can't remember what she said, but I clearly remember what my H told her. She asked him how he felt about the situation, and he told her that he dearly loved both of us, but he would support his wife. I'll never forget the look of shock on her face! She thought he would tell me I was wrong, yada, yada. She behaved like a woman who wanted to be top priority in the lives of her adult children and grandchildren. Things were a little better after that, and I would occasionally go with him to see her, but I maintained a certain emotional distance so I wouldn't get drawn back into a toxin situation. If I became uncomfortable, I left. I stopped trying to win my case to get my H to see how rotten his mother was and the pain she caused me. If he went over there every day (and he did), I didn't say anything or act puffed up about it. Those days were over for me.
I am embarrassed to admit this, but I'm going to say it anyway. During the worst times, I secretly thought that once she died then she would be out of lives and we would be free......and happy. She lived to be 90!!
I don't know what all went down between you and MIL. I don't know that a letter of apology will change how your MIL behaves toward you. Some people hold apologies and letters over your head for the rest of time on earth. Her behavior won't stop, just b/c you apologize. We see LBS's wanting to send letters to their spouses, and regardless of what they tell the board.......they do have some level of expectations from their spouse. If you are wanting to apologize to her as a means of softening your H.........I would wait on sending the letter.
Like me, I'm sure you had your share of faults, but according to your story, you felt harassed to the point you wanted to run to a safe place. Thank goodness you have a loving (and smart) mother. I think the fact your H was working really hard the last six months, and then refused to let you go back home, suggests a few things. His pride was probably wounded. Nothing is more fragile than a man's ego. Men don't think like we do, so it's a little difficult to know if they won't tell us. Maybe he felt he gave it all he had those six months, and you left anyway......so refusing to let you back, could be him wanting you to feel the sting. I still suspect your MIL is hounded his ears about what he should do and not do. Begging to go back home, is a turn-off. Nothing has changed, and you'll walk right back into the harassment. So, let's talk about a couple of things you can do, okay?
I suggest you get IC, b/c you've need guidance in sorting your feelings; know how to deal with the people in your day to day life; and your personal choices, before you do anything else. Don't tell your H to get counseling, b/c that has to be his choice. This is for you.
I feel the lines between the pain your H has caused and the pain your MIL has caused........becomes the same. It's hard to see one without the other. Having a professional therapist to help you during this time could prove to be life changing for you. Here's the thing, Rusty. Your MIL probably won't ever change, so you need to learn how to go on with your MR, and your life........knowing she is not going to change. You need to know how to deal with a toxic person.
I think you've seen that begging doesn't soften your H, so what do you do next? I suggest you take the pressure off him. Groveling is not only unattractive, but it dumps pressure on him, and he's resisting it. He's angry, so back away and give him space to deal with his feelings. If he come over, don't be cold or act mad. Just be gracious, poised, and pleasant. Whether he's there for two minutes or two hours, you don't start on him about letting you go back. Let him lead the conversation, and if he has nothing much to say.......don't feel you should jump in a fill the gaps. Actually, I find it a bit hopeful when he brought you something to eat. The problem I foresee with you, is taking it too far. It's just one little thing he did. If he hated your guts, I doubt he would carry food to you. So, just be nice and don't dive into relationship talks. This is extremely important.
It make take months before reconciliation occurs. That's okay, and even better when you are actively growing as an individual. It gives the relationship a better chance, IMHO. Give him time apart from you. Both of you seem to need a break from the tension and drama. Really take time to think about your values and what you will and won't tolerate in relationships. Sometime, love alone does not solve all problems. New skills are needed to know how to work through the problems successfully.
I applaud you for taking practical steps in getting medical assistance for your ADHD. I believe this could be a key factor in turning your life around.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you! So much of this is accurate. I think you hit the nail on the head with his pride. When I walked out that door, something inside him switched. Months earlier he had been desperately scrambling to save the marriage. Reading self help books, going to therapy, stepping up with the kids. And I think it's his mom too. But, I have to own part of him running to his mom. Where else was he going to go. His wife walked out with the kids. He was probably despondent. Of course his family swept him into their arms. That's what families do.
I don't know how I would handle MIL if I reconciled. I don't know all the right things to do, but I do clearly, clearly recognize some things that I did incorrectly: 1) I absolutely should not have harped on how mad I was at MIL with DH. That is his mother. Towards the end, he was setting boundaries. Any resentments I felt the need to discuss should have been discussed with girlfriends or a therapist. He did not need to hear over and over again about how she wronged me. 2) Towards the end I became unnecessarily hard nosed and just said "no" to everything because I had had enough of being pushed around. This was reactionary and unnecessarily hard nosed. I could have tried to find more of a middle ground. 3) She's not a monster. Yes, she put me through hell. But, at her core, she's a very insecure woman who is terrified of losing control and who feels the need to dominate to feel secure. I wish I had approached my issues with her from this perspective. But that's hard when someone is bullying you. Very, very hard 4) I gave her way. way too much power by carrying all that resentment and taking everything she did so personally. She would do the same with any woman DH married.
Also, thank you for all of your kind words and tough, but fair, love. It's more helpful then you realize
