I'm pretty sure my situation is hopeless, but I'm working with a DB coach, reading the books, and posting here for advice and support.
DH and I dated for two years, married for 7 separated for 1.5 now. We have two beautiful children. Ages 4 and 6. I walked out due to what I felt was constant criticism, the mounting demands of his family, and treating me like a servant. I filed for divorce a few months after leaving as the situation grew increasingly acrimonious. I think it’s hopeless and I’m confused and heartbroken. The children are desperate for us to reconcile.
We met in grad school. Got married, had children. My career was struggling and his was taking off. It made sense for me to stay home with kids because he far out earned me and his job required frequent travel. From the start, DH has always been a very organized, particular, demanding and controlling person. My ADHD drove him crazy. I would try and try harder to do things correctly, but I’d always fall short. He was always “frustrated.” I contributed financially through family money, so it wasn’t like I didn’t toss finances into the mix. Additionally, I did all childcare, housework, etc. In fact for the first 6 years of our marriage, he never changed a diaper, got up with the children, cleaned, etc. My resentment grew. Additionally, his mother was a lot. She had frequent unreasonable demands of our time and would throw tantrums if she did not get what she wanted. I mean screaming, hanging up the phone, guilt trips. She would call DH and highlight my faults and criticize me. I would let her have her way as often as possible to try to keep the peace. She and FIL would spend the entire weekend every other weekend at our house.
About 6 years into the marriage, I simply checked out. I couldn’t take it anymore. DH begged for marriage therapy. I went. He improved greatly. I was over the moon. Then the therapist met alone with DH and his parents. Whatever happened at that session was not good. I went to the next session with DH and the therapist confronted me. “What’s your problem with DH’s mom? She seems sweet! What has she ever done to you.” Now, DH’s mom can be sweet. She’s not a bad woman. But she is desperate for control and can be very difficult. At that point, I felt I’d been so bullied for so many years (I could give you examples that would make your toes curl), I just could not sit there and listen to how MIL was the victim. I did not return to marriage therapy. I let DH go alone. I had DH bring the children to visit in laws without me and I just tried to be pleasant around the house. We started getting on very, very well. I was fully checked back in.
For years, DH and I planned to have a third child in December of that year right after I turned 38. We continued to discuss it. Then, right after my 38th birthday, he pulled the plug on the child. I was devastated and so hurt. We went back to the first marriage therapist who he continued to see individually and she told me, “you probably wont ever have that child.” She suggested I start individual therapy with one of her associates. I agreed. I would not go back to marriage therapy with her though. I didn’t think it was appropriate that she was now both his marriage and individual therapist. DH and I went to a second marriage therapist, but I was so hurt and done by now. I quit. He kept grilling me at home, interrogating me about my whereabouts, alternating between being nice and criticizing me. His mother loomed in the background, having her tantrums.
One night, I’d had enough of the questioning. I’d never had an affair and he knew that. But he could not give me any space. I then made a decision I regret: I asked for a separation. That night I slept in the basement and he loudly stomped around taking down all of our photos. I left with the kids the next morning and went to my mother’s house. He told me I was selfish. Since I left, there were numerous times I tried to patch it up. All to no avail. He was done. His mother is there all the time now and, obviously, she hates me.
As time goes by, I see that a lot of our problems were fixable. I just had so much resentment at the time. I was so hurt, emotions were running high. But he now has no desire to fix them. I’m working with a divorce busters coach, but this feels so hopeless. We will probably be divorced in a couple months. Looking for any and all advice.
Last edited by job; 10/28/2005:28 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Quick question: I kind of qualify as the WAS in this situation I think. He was going to marriage therapy alone and I asked for the separation and filed for divorce-decisions I later regret. In this case, do the rules re: low contact, detachment etc still apply? I've noticed that pleading etc really does not work. But should I try and be nice and accommodating since I was the WAW. It's almost like DH and I have flipped places. He was desperate to save the marriage up until I walked out. Once I walked out and had some time to process things, I became open to saving the marriage, but he remains resolute on his decision to end it.
Also, I have to admit that at times I even question if I want back in. I love DH and I the children are absolutely devastated by the separation, but I have to admit that I wonder if I'm crazy for even wanting to salvage this. MIL was unbearable. DH was never pleased no matter how hard I tried. I've made friends with a lot of other WAWs and they all think I'm crazy to even think about rescuing it. I want to be in a marriage where mil doesn't control every aspect of my life and isn't always in my business. I want to make DH happy. I just never thought I'd be the type of woman to walk out on my marriage. But I felt like I had to to save myself
Rustymom, we do not get too many WASs here. So it is enlightening to see things from the other end. I think you are right in saying you are the WAS. Obviously, your LBS is not perfect, and there are dynamics that led to you walking away. However, I could relate a lot to your H. You were my W, I was your H in our sitch. A lot of what you say about him is also true about me.
My W never went so far as to physically separate but she did say she wanted a D. She had completely checked out. When she did that I initially made the classic LBS mistakes, crying, begging, pleading, promising, trying to reason with her. But on day 3 I remembered DBing (this was our second sitch, the first being in 2005 the difference being she said she didn't want a D in 2005). And I started to detach, give her time and space, fix my own problems, and go out and GAL. The effect it had on my W, overtime, is that she wanted to stay.
So now you are in the spot where you initiated things and when you got them, and he detached, now you want back. Here is the thing. One day he may accept you back. Maybe he never will. You do not get to decide that, only he does. But what you can decide to do is to focus on yourself, and become the best version of you that you can be. I highly recommend remaining in IC. You have a lot to work through. A couple of things that stand out to me:
1) MIL. When you marry someone you marry their family. Like it or not she will always be a presence until the day she dies. If you get back together with him, and your attitude remains " I want to be in a marriage where mil doesn't control every aspect of my life and isn't always in my business." then you likely will end up in the same position again in a few months. You have to come to grips with the fact that if you reconcile with him, she comes along with the package. We rarely get to decide exactly what we want in life. So you need to figure out if you can deal with that again in the future because you likely won't get the chance of being with this man again with his mother out of the picture.
2) The 3rd child. Why is this so important to you? So important that you would willing have a child with someone that has made it clear he doesn't want another. Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? My W came to me at one point several years ago and wanted to have another baby. Our marriage was a SSM, with both of us very unhappy and very passive-aggressive. I was withholding emotional intimacy. She was withholding physical intimacy. Bringing another child into that marriage would have been a terrible idea. I do believe me saying no set us up for BD 2017. But it was the right decision. Whether or not you agree with his reason, having a child with a man that doesn't want another child is wrong. It borders on selfish.
So the good news is that you are still a perfect candidate to DB. Work on GAL. Continue to self-improve (stay in IC, work on 180s). And learn about detachment. What it is and work on it. Coparent with him. Let him do all of the work on a divorce if he continues to push. You DB (have you read Divorce Remedy?), and leave him alone to figure himself out.
In short: "In this case, do the rules re: low contact, detachment etc still apply?" The answer is YES. That is really your only choice. The only alternative is to pressure and pursue him and that almost never works, as you have been finding out.
Last edited by Steve85; 10/28/2008:57 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As far as your question, I believe the main rule that applies:
"Do what works"
You can take a hard look at your role in the decline of the relationship and decide how you want to behave/interact going forward. You can test some of the "Tactics" and see how he responds. Ultimately it is better to measure success by how you are behaving and less about how he is responding to you. Time and space gives both people time to work on themselves and reduce the blaming. He might not get there. You on the other hand have this support network to help you change. He will lag behind you.
Always put the "Best you" out there when interacting with him.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Thank you so much for responding! I got the impression that there were not a lot of WAWs on this board. Hopefully, we can all help each other by seeing one another's perspective. While I certainly can't speak for every woman out there who leaves a marriage, I can tell you what I experienced, what drove me to that decision, etc. If that would be helpful for anyone, then ask away. I find that seeing things from the opposite perspective can prove invaluable.
I've done A LOT of reflecting since I left. (Like all night every night). I will say that I've come to the conclusion that it wasn't entirely me and it was entirely DH. It was both of us.
I do want to touch on a couple of points you made
1) The MIL. I absolutely agree MIL and DH are a package deal. In fact, when we first went to therapy, he said "I'll cut them out if you want." I told him that I did not want them cut out, I wanted limits and boundaries placed on them. That was the issue for me. For instance, for years when MIL would bad mouth me to DH and family he would just sit there . The correct response would have been, "Hey, that's my wife. Please knock it off." But he was very scared of her. I actually feel badly for DH in this regard. His mother is not a bad person, but she causes problems in his relationship. Both his high school and college girlfriends broke up with him over her antics. Other DIL(his brother's wife) didn't speak to her for the better part of a year. Poor DH is in a tough spot with her and, honestly, unless he learns to stand up for his SO I fear he will have the same problem if he remarries. THAT SAID, I absolutely have to own my part. When we got in marriage therapy, DH did start setting boundaries with her. Where I really messed up was not letting the resentment go at the point. He was handling it and I should have just let it go.
2) The 3rd child- Yes I was probably irrational on this. We'd been planning the child for years, DH had desperately wanted the third. And, to me, it was an abrupt about face right that was occurring right at the end of my child bearing years (38). I agree it wasn't logical, but I grieved that child. Really, truly grieved. It was beyond hurtful at the time. But it was probably the best decision.
Yes I am trying to do what works but still detach. In the last few weeks I've started dropping off home cooked meals to DH and he loves this. He can't resist good food (pot roast, pot pie). I also have forgone a lot of child support etc that I could lay claim to. I told him that I'm only taking the amount I actually need. I did not marry him for money and I am showing him that I care about his wellbeing.
What isn't working is telling him how I'm improving, begging, trying to talk about the marriage, texting frequenty, etc. I end conversations first and limit discussions to the kids. I'm giving him all the space.
My divorce busters coach suggested that I invite DH to events with me and the children. But I invite him, he accepts and then backs out. He is invited to Halloween and every day he brings it up and tells me he's still thinking about it. I can't figure out if he wants me to beg or what. I told him that it was an invite and not a summons and he can come or not come, but we would love it if he was there.
