Caught in limbo

[WMWB]

I disagree. Time and space are the only thing that turns these around long term. They have to come home when they are ready to come home and ready to work on the marriage. Anything else is typically a “stay of execution”. While they are not in the marriage everything you do is annoying and magnified 1000% while they are in that mindset.

So are you thinking we are just riding to an inevitable separation again?

[WMWB]

Perhaps the life with the OM wasn't turning out to be what she thought it would be and maybe he wasn't who she thought he was which is why she started reaching out to me again and was still hesitant to end it with OM. Then whatever happened that caused her to end it with OM I do think with all honesty she wanted to come back and work on the M otherwise she would have just gone home with her parents as they offered to take her home with them.

I understand the reasons for wanting to come back are important and mistakes in that regard have now been made, I should have been more aware of the motivation and I should have put boundaries in place for coming back.

However we are where we are now and I don't know where her head is at and if she is backsliding due to missing the OM or if there is another reason I just don't know and that is the dilemma that is my life right now.

[LH19]

W,

I obviously have know way of knowing one way or another but I tend to think so. Without remorse there can be no reconciliation. Without her willing to put in the effort to work on the marriage there can be no sustaining reconciliation. Without her seeing you as a person of value there can be no reconciliation. The problem is that the LBS can see no value in themselves so why do they expect the WW to see value in them. People want to be with people that they feel good about not people they can walk all over.

If at bomb drop the LBS said “you know what I wasn’t my best self I would love for you to stay and work with me on the marriage but if you want to go be with so and so good luck with that. Then filed for divorce and went and built a great life. The recon rate would be high. The problem is the LBS does the complete opposite and that is why it is so low. That’s what DB is about. It’s becoming the man/woman who is able to walk away from situations that don’t work for him/her. If you buck the system go read Wolfmans story. Go read Andrew Ps story in the surviving divorce section and see what ends up happening.

Remember that you don’t get in life what you deserve you get what you negotiate. In a negotiation you have to be willing to walk away from a deal that does not work for you.

[SteveLW]

I disagree. Time and space are the only thing that turns these around long term. They have to come home when they are ready to come home and ready to work on the marriage. Anything else is typically a “stay of execution”. While they are not in the marriage everything you do is annoying and magnified 1000% while they are in that mindset.

So are you thinking we are just riding to an inevitable separation again?

WMWB you have no idea that that is inevitable. If you don't give her time and space, then I think that is more likely than not. Most LBSs pressure and pursue their WAS right out of the door. Back off. Let her have the time and space to figure her own crap out. You go do your own thing. GAL, 180s, detach. Those are not just words.

Stop trying to control what you cannot.

[may22]

WMWB,

I agree with Steve. My point in my post was you have no idea what is happening in your W's head right now. All you can do is back off on the pressure and spend time figuring out what it is that YOU want. If you want to S, then S. If you want to stand, then stand. You can't predict the future and as Steve says, stop trying to control what you cannot. All you can do is give her time and space, and spend that time focusing on you.

[WMWB]

Thanks again everyone.

I am giving her space and I have backed off I wasn't sure if I should go totally cold or not at this stage. Earlier in the thread there was talk about finding the right balance so when she comes to kiss me I kiss back. When she says ILY before going to sleep I say it back. I am working to stop the over analysing everything she does as it drive me mad as I try to figure out what does it or what doesn't it mean and I am just trying to focus on the day to day for now.

What threw me for a loop was all the initial positivity and affection and the "this will be a better marriage" back to not being sure what she wants. Whatever the reasons for the back sliding I am sure it will reveal itself or get better with some time.

[SteveLW]

Thanks again everyone.

I am giving her space and I have backed off I wasn't sure if I should go totally cold or not at this stage. Earlier in the thread there was talk about finding the right balance so when she comes to kiss me I kiss back. When she says ILY before going to sleep I say it back. I am working to stop the over analysing everything she does as it drive me mad as I try to figure out what does it or what doesn't it mean and I am just trying to focus on the day to day for now.

What threw me for a loop was all the initial positivity and affection and the "this will be a better marriage" back to not being sure what she wants. Whatever the reasons for the back sliding I am sure it will reveal itself or get better with some time.

First, there is nothing in loving detachment about being "cold". Never be cold. Go study the detachment thread, lots of LBSs get that wrong.

If you read my story you will see that I confronted my W on 12/23/2017 about some Facebook messenger messages between her and a guy that I found. She immediately said she didn't want to be married anymore. Obviously the next day was Christmas Eve followed by Christmas. She was more affectionate and loving to me those two days that at anytime in the prior 5 years. This resulted in me starting R talks at various points throughout those two days and every time the answer was the same: she still didn't want to be married anymore.

At some point in my sitch, it came out that she was loving and affectionate in those couple of days following BD because she knew that I was hurting. In retrospect it was her way of easing her own guilt over what she was doing to me. It meant nothing.

That is why trying to garner meaning out of the activities of a WAS and/or WS is a futile endeavor. They are running on pure emotion. One minute they might actually be questioning their decision. But then 5 minutes later they are as resolved as ever to end the marriage. My W later told me that she had no idea what she wanted from minute to minute, it depended on her mood and feeling at that exact moment. SO WMWB, if she had no idea what her feelings and actions meant, how in the world could I?!?

This is why you need to be. Luckily for me on 12/26/2017 (Boxing Day for our Canadian friends!) I remembered from our previous sitch 12 years earlier DB and MWD! I immersed myself into DBing and reading and listening to MWD (and other anti-D experts I might add), and started to pull back. Remove all pressure and pursuit. GAL (reconnected with an old friend and he and I were taking weekly trips to the gun range among other activities (outdoor shows/stores, etc). I started to 180 on my bad behaviors and improve as a person. I didn't flaunt these changes, I just started to really change for me, and in the process she began to take note and overtime to trust the changes. And most of all I detached. I cannot tell you what an change in our dynamic me detaching was. I remember when she came to me to ask me for help in resume writing, interviewing and if she could buy books on the subject. I completed supported her even though that was her enabler for leaving. The profound impact that my embracing her leaving, and even supporting it, had on her cannot be overstated. The next night, as she was trying to finish her resume, she came to me in tears about what she was doing "God hates divorce." I continued to remain completely emotionally neutral and told her things like "You have to do what you need to in order to be happy." Etc. (I was still working on listening and validating, something I became much better at later.)

My point is WMWB is that when you completely let go, drop the rope, open the cage door (whatever analogy you want to use here!) and let her go.....sometimes she'll want to come right back. I recently heard a story of a man that had a pet raccoon. He rescued it as a baby, and had it in a cage. It never domesticated and was mean even though he raised it and fed it. It was in an outdoor pen and would run and up down the side of the pen constantly. One day he decided to let it go. He opened the cage door. The raccoon continued to run up and down the side of the cage including direction of the completely open door. But it would turn around and go the other way every time. Finally, the man banged on the outside of the cage, and raccoon finally bolted towards the door, into the woods to freedom. Your WAW is like that pet raccoon. You open the door. SHE will decide whether to run off into the woods or not.

[Ready2Change]

[quote=WMWB] I recently heard a story of a man that had a pet raccoon. He rescued it as a baby, and had it in a cage. It never domesticated and was mean even though he raised it and fed it. It was in an outdoor pen and would run and up down the side of the pen constantly. One day he decided to let it go. He opened the cage door. The raccoon continued to run up and down the side of the cage including direction of the completely open door. But it would turn around and go the other way every time. Finally, the man banged on the outside of the cage, and raccoon finally bolted towards the door, into the woods to freedom. Your WAW is like that pet raccoon. You open the door. SHE will decide whether to run off into the woods or not.

Just don't bang on the outside of the cage.

[sandi2]

She says she wants more independence (which I have never stopped her having) as she has never been an independent person before being that she went from living with parents to being married and having kids, I do get that but it just seems counter intuitive to what’s needed right now to heal the marriage (transparency).

It depends what she really means by wanting more independence. Going away for the weekend, without her H, is not what a recovering WW should do. Having a girl's night out, or anything along those lines, are not what she should be doing while she's going through withdrawals. She may argue the point, but that type of atmosphere is very bad for someone who is suppose to be straightening out herself. She gets the wrong type of encouragement & influence from those who do not have your MR at best interest. So, I would red flag any going overnight without her H.......staying out late at night, etc.

Now, if the girl couldn't go shopping without you tagging alone, then maybe she wants to feel she can do a few practical things by herself. I think it goes hand in hand with feeling smothered. Of course, we've seen the times where the WW would pitch that same script simply as a smoke screen to meet up with OM.

You want validation from her. You want reassurance. You want to see her actively working on the MR. None of these are unreasonable for a LBS, but frankly, I don't believe you are going to get all this from your W right now. I've already told you that ending the A and going through withdrawals is the WORK she has to do first. If you are looking for her to fill your emotional needs at this time.......I don't think she can do it. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating how it is.

I now know how important it was to have boundaries in place before she came back.

It's not too late to set boundaries, if you really understand how it works. Before you decide to proclaim some boundary, I recommend you read the link on boundaries, and talk to the board about the boundary you want in place.

She spent most of the morning in bed and I made the family and her something to eat.
Then she comes down late afternoon gives me a kiss (2pm) says she is going for a drive to her Mums.
Its 4 hours later and I have hardly heard a peep out of her.
I have hardly seen her all day

Hardly heard from her? Does that mean she did make some type of contact?

Was anything said to her while she spent the morning in bed? I mean, is this unusual for her to lay around while you cook and take care of the kids? Unless she gave an excuse for staying in bed all morning, I tend to think it's more of you spoiling her (thinking it shows your love). She doesn't need to be spoiled and petted. You freak when she's gone four hours (supposing at mum's). What's with you, needing so much phone contact with her during the day? You don't have to answer, b/c I know what it is........and so does she!

I strongly suggest you study the link on boundaries. Boundaries are a must in a wayward spouse situation. Setting healthy boundaries are for your protection.

Going with the flow doesn't mean you just passively put up with disrespect. That's why you need to decide your boundaries.

[tom_l]

Thanks everyone. I have backed off and I am giving her space.

Bravo!

She does openly admit that she thinks she is going through grieving the R with the OM and she did say she wasn't sure what she wanted and that her head was all over the place and is full of doubts but she does want to try work on us. So I guess right now I just need to take her word for it and go with the flow as they say.

But remember that one of Sandi's rules of WAWs is to not expect logic from them. So she might contradict herself tomorrow and don't get frustrated. She might say the A with the OM is over one day, and then see him that weekend. Don't be frustrated by this.

Is it pursuing if I drop her a quick text to ask her how her day is going or should I just leave her be?

You need to create some mystery and some level of curiosity with her. So don't text her. Just wish her a good day in the morning and leave it at that. In fact, if I were in your shoes, I'd back away from her kisses one morning and say, "You know, you need some space and I want to honor that. But I need some as well, so let's not kiss as if it were the old days. Someday we might again, but for now I need some space, too." Limit the conversation you initiate to the minimum necessary for the logistics of the house. Always be pleasant, always look good.

Of course it hurts that she walked out of the marriage rather than working on it and decided to replace me with someone else ... I too carry guilt for the role I played in allowing my M to get into this state.

Welcome to the club. That's how I have felt for the past year since the sweetest woman in the universe -- my STBXW -- walked out on me, without warning.

It certainly is super frustrating and unfair and it does make me feel angry at times that she wanted to come back and is now backsliding perhaps due to deceit or perhaps due to going through the motions -- who knows. Sometimes I feel like she is trying to push me away with her actions but then I remind myself I shouldn't assume anything as I don't know what's going on in her head. Plus its just stupid stuff like I ask her how her day was and she doesn't ask me about my day

OK. You vented these sentiments again. Now remember what everyone else is telling you. Don't expect logic or balance for now. Just GAL, do 180s, and detach. This has to sink in so you can prepare yourself for either outcome in the future.

Don't ask her how her day was. Just say welcome home or hi. Don't ask her where she is going if she leaves. If I were you, I wouldn't even plan dinner around her.

I keep reminding myself for now is that at least she is home and with her here that gives the best chance for the situation to improve.

Yes.