WAS or WHAT 11

[roist]

Here is a reply I gave to another poster asking about where our spouses where in their crisis. just reposting for me to reread later:


I'm just after passing the fifth anniversary since I realised how close I was to losing my W/M and decided to stand. Unlike the previous replies and most stories here, my W never left. There are positives and négatives in relation to that, but I suspect it would have been easier (on me) if we had split up. That being said, for whatever reason, we are both still here.

Fo me, at the start I realised how much I loved her and what I would be losing. This motivated me and still does to a certain extent. Our story is documented on this forum, so I won't rehash it here. Long story short is that despite ongoing positive signs/interactions we are still no closer to improving our R. Some of this is now on me, as I am not interested in working on it alone. So at the moment I am letting it be and focusing on other aspects of my life. Call it distraction but in essence I am buying time before I have had enough. So in the end it boils down to time and space. Plus I prefer having no interactions than poor ones!! (not a great mindset, but at this stage, it is what it is)

As for W, I see progress in general, with more interest stuff. She's a good mother and has invested a lot in our boys. Our distance I believe has created some parenting issues due to not being united, but nothing that can't be solved. Recently W has pushed to talk about parenting and probably "us". So far this has not lead anywhere, as often the timing was off due to presence of kids who tended to show up shortly after it started!!. She seems to be putting the emphasis on me to find solutions and/or to change/do more. Some of her griefs are genuine, but I am not going to jump through loops to work on things alone. And I am not interested in working towards a status quo

After five years I still don't know what she wants going forward, except me as a parent to the boys. She has mentioned how things are complicated for her, how things are difficult for her, how she is tired, how she doesn't sleep well. I know the communication techniques out there tell us to state things in the I as opposed to you, but to me it comes across as being all about her and what I am going to do about it!

All that being said, I believe W is just as frustrated and unhappy with how we are getting on at present. Based on current interactions, I imagine a R chat will occur before the end of the year. It's been about two years since we had one!

So in a nutshell to answer the question, after five years our crisis is still moving along following its course ever so slowly. The process has changed completely my Outlook on life and who I am. Soon I hope to put down the burden of standing and progress more actively towards living a fuller better life. I am doing that already but believe can be much much better..............


Rereading this thread, it was interesting. I will dwell on that and see what happens. In the meantime, best wishes to ye all.

[HaWho]

Roist - 5 years; you have stood long and strong! What a testament that is to your character.

I hear lots of detachment in the tone of this message. And you did a fantastic job of building a life outside your marriage to maintain a measure of happiness outside your home life.

I cannot recall if your wife ever went through that period of stating she wanted to leave or D? Or has she always just been sort of stuck?

Kudos to you on all the personal growth you have accomplished while still standing.

[roist]

Hawho,

Thanks for dropping by and for your kind words.

W has never voiced wanting to leave or D. But five years ago she couldn't promise me anything about our M. Without dwelling on it in too much detail, stuck is a pretty good description.

On another note, this week we have uncermoniously clicked into our 25th year together. I was convinced we would not have made it to our 20th anniversary. I imagined that by our 25th we'd be in a happily rebuilt M or seperated/D. I was convinced that if could get through the crisis then with time we could make it great again and even envisaged renewing our vows on our 25th anniversary together. As I've said many times before, a lot can happen in a year.................. I'll let ye all know how that works out.

In a few weeks we'll have another Christmas as a family. I won't debat or dwell on the togetherness of it all, but again five years ago I believed I was facing our last one. Regardless of what happens that alone is Worth my struggle as I strongly believe it beneficial to our sons.

I am not writing this to say what an achievement I have done, because I don't look at it like that at all. Probably the opposite is closer. But I wrote these lines to highlight that during this crisis we can be convinced of a certain outcome as inevitable and yet that may not be so. Don't believe or dwell on your worst fears. In time those fears will turn out to be less bad than we imagine even IF they come about.

Best wishes to ye all leading up to the festive season, not forgetting thangsgiving for those stateside.

[roist]

Hi all,

Just a quick update, but mostly I wanted to come here today to wish all of ye my best wishes over the Holiday season. Unfortunately this time of year often is associated with past memories of better times and a sad reminder of what is missing. I urge ye to focus on the good parts of your lives and make the most of the festive season.

As for me, this is my sixth Christmas in the midst of this crisis. My sixth time facing into making the most of it. I manage to a certain extent but admit things are tinged with not being entirely happy with how things are. This isn't how I want to live. Each year I Wonder if it'll be our last together. Sometimes i feared that and more recently wished for it!! But that is something 2020 will figure out.

We had our annual r chat. W very unhappy and I will admit all her points were mostly valid. she still is blinded and deaf about my side of things so being a week before Christmas I let it slide. No point adding to the tension before the house fills up with her extended family!!

And yet things could be worse. A lot worse. I don't have time to outline any more for now.

Best wishes everyone. Be strong

[SBJ]

Happy New Year roist...I pray that 2020 is the year for us all!!!

God Bless!

[roist]

Just dropped by to update my profile ticking over another year. Browsed through some of my last threads and they echo how I feel. "Groundhog day". I figured so much stuff out, came to clear understandings of many aspects of this crisis, have overcome obstacles, set and achieved objectives YET my M and R and how I feel about it echo through my posts and through the years.

Despite my personal struggles with not wanting to continue to live like this, I still believe a certain potential is present. I guess it's my version of Foreveryoung's signature: because she's still worth it. Our actual R isn't worth continuing but our potential one is worth it.

However it's time to mix things up. Time to look at what I can change and how I can live better. I've done that before but this time I want to go outside the box or at least outside what I view as my constraints. Most of what I write is just to help me see things that otherwise would be missed. That's why posting here is so helpful especially in the beginning when the LBS is struggling.

Our 14th W anniversary is upcoming followed closely by our 25th year together. It's also my sixth anniversary of realising how messed up our M was and wanting to save it.

Until next time best wishes fellow DBers.

[Gerda]

Hurray for you, for all the work you have done on yourself, for your faith and hope in possibilities and for your fidelity!

Hopefully you will explain what you mean by some of these allusions to constraints and boxes. Your journey is one I always checked on with interest.

[roist]

Hi Gerda

Thanks for dropping by and thanks for following along.

I'm sure the answer to your question is already in previous posts, but as an exercise to clarify my thoughts I'll let you know what it means to me at the moment.

We all associate assumptions with certain actions/ decisions. For example someone unhappy with the pay they receive for their job. This person is stressed because it's hard to make ends meet. The stress is almost worse than the poor income. This person could believe that a better paying job would mean more responsibility and more stress, which they don't want. So to avoid this assumed association, they remain in their current situation.

Such associations are everywhere in life and are often not even consciously made. Our upbringing, previous experiences and personality are mainly the sources of such beliefs. They are present for all types of situations including our R/M.

A common example referred to on this site is that a spouse may feel unloved because the other is not showing them love in a way they feel love. So if they don't feel that love the assumptions is that the other isn't demonstrating love or worse doesn't love them.

We all stick meanings on what others say or do. It is possible that we are right, but not necessarily.

A H comes home and storms straight into his study or another room without speaking to W. The W takes this personally and gets annoyed assuming H is being a jerk. That affects her interactions afterwards. There could be many reasons for such behaviour from the H that have nothing to do with his W. But for this example I'll go a step further and the reason he did so was out of love for his W. He had a particularly stressful/awful day and wanted to take a few minutes alone to digest it so he could pass some quality time with W. Ten minutes later when he comes out, his W is now furious with him and attacks him over every little thing past and present! The H doesn't understand where this came from but is immediately brought back into the state of mind he was in upon arriving. Now he's annoyed because his bad day is continuing at home.

Everyone tells themselves stories which they believe to be true. My H did X and that means Y. Over time H doesn't even have to do X and Y is assumed anyhow because we repeat the story in our minds.

Which leads me onto constraints and boxes. In our life we believe we cannot do X because it will cause Y. Some constraints are real but many are not.

Without talking about seeing someone else outside the M, there are things we just don't do because being married means we shouldn't, like going out every night without spouse. There's no law against it but it's just not right.

So in my situation we are still "together" as a couple and as a family, albeit strained, but still together. I could easily fill up all of my evenings with non W activities but feel that as we are still together that's not right.

On the flipside, because our R is unfulfilling I don't feel like doing stuff together. In a M the more we don't feel like it is often when it's needed the most, but my assumptions is that that applies to a healthier M and not here.

Now to bring those two together in a concrete example. Next week is our W anniversary and I don't feel like doing anything. Just let it pass. That's the fed up version of me that has WAS thinking. But there is part of me that believes I should because that's the right thing to do. It's not just an obligation but moreso I want to on a deeper level because that's the H I want to be. What do ye advise about that?

As mentioned in one of my last posts this time last year and even earlier in other posts, I put certain restrictions on what i want to do because of my situation:
# certain because it's not the done thing because i am in a R
# others like showing affection I limit because our R isn't quite right
# some discussions/actions I put off believing she isn't yet ready and hence pointless at this stage. On that point I do believe she is closer to being ready to listen AND hear.
Add to the mix that at times my teenager and preteenager as well as W trigger me even though I see my triggers and work on them .

So on a daily basis I build up my optimistic outlook about a potential future R and aim towards that but find myself triggered by some interaction (or lack thereof)and that ends that days momentum. Leave it there and hit reset the next day. Groundhog day.