A day at a time

[may22]

Pommy, Wooba, Alison, Mar... thank you.

Mar-- hugs right back to you. You're going through the hardest part of all of this, right now (at least it was for me, thinking back). You'll get through this.

Wooba-- yeah, snarkiness never helps but it kind of feels good in the moment.

think that's when boundaries and honesty are important - (does he need to make boundaries for himself if you are lashing out at him?) when he's wallowing, you leave him be and excuse yourself from that moment. He says that you're controlling....point out that you're in control of yourself. whether you put that ring back on is your action. He is the one in control of his actions. He needs to own his own actions and feelings and beliefs and stop using you as an excuse of his inability to deal with things.

Yes, he has boundaries and has started to enforce them. If I go overboard he will stop the conversation and say he can't continue and then doesn't. He's also said "this is a boundary for me" which absolutely enraged me the first couple of times it happened. After reflection, though, I feel some grudging respect on this one and that it also helps me to have that knowledge of his boundary to keep my own temper under control. I don't want to be that person. I don't want to yell at him to try to make him feel as badly as I do (which I think has been part of my underlying and unacknowledged motivation).

I think when we aren't actively talking about the A, we both do better, though I'm fully aware that the alien may resurface again. I think the alien H also scared me for a bunch of reasons, feeling I was back to the worst times of our M, wondering if it meant he was back in touch with AP, scared that this was a preview of our lives together. And when he got nicer again then I also worried it was because he was back in touch with AP.

I am feeling more secure about him not being in touch with AP, though. We had a conversation about it the other night. He said his IC asked why he hadn't reached out to her. He said that he felt like having finally come 100% clean with me and having gone through the box of memorabilia he had told the IC and himself he would always hold onto and never tell me about-- that was kind of like going to confession. He felt cleansed and doesn't want to dirty himself. If he reached out to her he'd either need to tell me about it and blow this all up, which he doesn't want to do, or lie about it and restart that whole cycle of lying which he also doesn't want to do. His conscience on the lying front is clear right now and it is the thing he hated the worst about himself during the A and is one thing he can control. Anyway, I do feel OK on this one.

I think both of you need to be brutally honest with each other.

I think we have been very honest with each other this time around. I know I've been a lot more honest in how I feel, though I think I need to take the emotion out of it. My (controlling?) problem is that I experience anger when he is honest with me about how he feels, which is not, of course, 100% back in the marriage train with me and beating of the brow and breast over his actions and all the rest.

When he's calm and we aren't pushing each other's buttons, he's been steadfast in he has made this decision, he is here, he is working on processing what it all means, his grief over AP, his identity, how to reconcile his actions with his image of himself. He says ILY and that his love for me is unconditional. He will love me until the day he dies.

But he doesn't say he loves me romantically (because, at this moment, he does not). I need to really just reconcile myself every day to the fact that this is where we are. And I have chosen it. The day I'm no longer OK with that, when it has been too long and things haven't changed, then I can decide I don't need to accept a H anymore who doesn't love his W the way a H is supposed to love a W and can leave.

Are you guys back in MC? I am finding the MC really helping get all of this out on the table right now. The MC is really helping ratify my feelings in front of H, and making him face them head on. Up to now, I have felt like I have been pushed into a corner and made to suck it up. MC has said this is not a good strategy as at some point the bubbling emotions will boil over. Do you have or need an outlet for your emotions right now, in H's presence?

We aren't. I kind of didn't really want to start MC until I felt he was "over" AP. We only had a few sessions with MC before we ended because of quarantine back in the spring after he cut things off with her, and they were really awful. H just wallowing in his feelings, angry that I didn't want to hear them, refusing to talk about the A or answer my questions. I really don't want a repeat of that. Of course things are somewhat different now-- I was laser focused on getting my questions answered and incredulous that he wouldn't answer them-- and now, of course, he did finally answer all of them. We talked a little about the possibility now that the kids are back in in-person school, or even a joint session with the IC. I'm not super motivated at this moment. If it was his idea, I'd probably say OK. Right now, I feel like it will be better for me to cultivate outlets for my own emotions outside of H, and limit sharing my feelings with him right now.

I think this is one of the areas where our sitches are different-- your H was never in even a fraction as deep with his EAP as my H was with his AP, and your H can say with honesty that he wants desperately to have those feelings back with you again. My H still can't really say that honestly. He can say it intellectually, wanting M2.0 and that those feelings for me are a part of that package, but he still is emotionally connected to AP. I think if my H was to the place your H is in, I'd be more inclined to pursue MC.

About my feelings around AP... I don't know what drives that. Jealousy and anger for sure. I think I'll spend some time on that with my IC this afternoon. I really want to stop giving her any head space.

I keep reminding myself of something from the piecing thread - that initially, simply stopping what they were doing previously IS progress, and about all they can manage right now.

This struck a chord with me, Pommy. You're right. I keep bouncing back and forth between he's trying and is this good enough for me? I think it is, for now. I don't want to let go, though, of the right to decide it isn't enough anymore. Maybe I'm a little scared I will and will end up settling for crumbs. That isn't how I feel about it, though. I'm OK with being here for now because that is what is on offer and I've decided it is worthwhile to try. It won't be enough forever and I'm sticking to that.

Haha, Pommy, it does make me laugh to think of these Hs wanting us to bake them cakes for not deserting their wives and families. Woo-hoo! It really does help to know that I'm not alone.

I think the fact is - he is going to grieve. It is horrible, unpleasant and awful for you to witness. And while he is grieving, he really don't have much for you in terms of empathy or engagement. And that is horrible and unpleasant too.

I can only suggest what you don't want to do - which is to separate so you don't have to see his grieving and be triggered by it, and he doesn't need to deal with your (justified) anger and upset while he has grieving to do. You can't be husband and wife to each other right now. So you either deal with being housemates and expecting nothing from each other emotionally, or you separate.

That is hard, I know. And it isn't your fault that he can only offer 'housemate' while he himself is expecting 'wife'. But you can either go around in circles arguing about that, taking turns to be the jerk, or you can get out of the dynamic physically and let the time do what time does to the emotional process.

You're so right on all of this. Especially the part where we really should just be housemates but he expects 'wife' (and I think to some degree I expect 'husband' even though I know he is incapable of that right now).

I still am not okay with the idea of a physical S at the moment. I feel like I have other things to explore first to manage my own emotions and take the space I need to avoid being triggered by his grief. I want to step out of the game of taking turns to be the jerk. I don't like myself when I act like that, justified anger or not. So I want to channel those feelings elsewhere-- friend, IC, journal, exercise, here-- and cultivate the good feelings around me, with my kids, the kittens, my work, reengaging with friends, baking, cooking, enjoying the outdoors. I think I'll give this a couple weeks and see how I do.

xx thanks you guys. love you all.