Need advice on stubborn W

[AKuei]

Thanks for the encouragement BL! I can't describe how grateful I am to have stumbled on this place. My sitch is similar with a few here and by reading and feeling their pain, I can better relate that Im truly not alone in this.

And yes! I'm so looking forward to 2021! I have tonnes of things planned up for myself and the kids! I can also say that it will be even more awesome if W is around to do all things together as a family but Ill be just as fine without her. I have to fake it till I make it. The fear and anxiety will not be completely gone but as time passes and we get better at detaching, we probably won’t die from it!

I feel like I’ve come a Long way and I’m a different person now; I’m sure I’m a better father to my kids because they adore me! I’m getting more positive by the day (but you know some days are just brutal because emotions are a b****). No matter what happens, I WON’T DIE!

But that being said, I still have a lot of work to do. I’m still affected by my W’s action to a certain extent sometimes. Like I assumed she already has a EA/PA even though I do not have hard evidence (I’m stopping myself from snooping) and sometimes my bad thoughts will appear out of nowhere to put me down. It’s tough but I Guess it’s part of my journey?

[BL42]

AKuei,

She was evasive, said he was an old friend from school (true), and that she didn't chat with him much or often (lie).

My W had her AP's name in her phone with his job title as if to remember who it was (like someone you met at the bar the night before) and after continually denying and affair when I finally confronted her with the name she said he's been a good friend for 10 years. I knew her 9 of those and never heard about him once. It was complete BS.

When I installed the spyware the first conversation I captured was her telling OM about me asking about him. And she suggested that some evening, when I was around, that they could IM innocently to show me that there was no concern. The very next night is when I found a lengthy email where he spent 60% of the time trying to convince her to meet him so they could do what they had so often IM'd about sexually.

My W and OM had multiple drawn out discussions about how not to get caught and whether or not I would expose them. They would plan for her to invite my parents over for a Sunday family dinner so to act as if nothing was going on and keep suspicions down and keep the peace (she didn't have any idea how much I knew), unfortunately I was still trying to nice her back at the time so I played along. Now she won't even say hello to my mom, who has been NOTHING but welcoming and generous and loving to her for 9 years.

BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS OR SHOWS YOU. She is an lying cheater. Never trust a lying cheater.

^^^THIS!!! They're liars!!! It's hard because you remember them when they weren't wayward and see signs of something and think "no, she couldn't do that" or "no, she wouldn't lie about that"...they ARE!!! Listen to Steve85.

[BL42]

AKuei,

Thanks for the encouragement BL! I can't describe how grateful I am to have stumbled on this place. My sitch is similar with a few here and by reading and feeling their pain, I can better relate that Im truly not alone in this.

No problem! I understand completely about reading others' sitches and not feeling so alone. We could all use some around here and it sounds like your timeline and situation are somewhat similar to mine, so I'm especially interested to follow it.

And yes! I'm so looking forward to 2021! I have tonnes of things planned up for myself and the kids

Awesome!

I can also say that it will be even more awesome if W is around to do all things together as a family but Ill be just as fine without her. I have to fake it till I make it. The fear and anxiety will not be completely gone but as time passes and we get better at detaching, we probably won’t die from it!

I feel like I’ve come a Long way and I’m a different person now; I’m sure I’m a better father to my kids because they adore me! I’m getting more positive by the day (but you know some days are just brutal because emotions are a b****). No matter what happens, I WON’T DIE!

No, you won't die - we'll both make it through. It's not ideal or what we wanted, but it's what we have to deal with and as they say around here there's life after.

But that being said, I still have a lot of work to do. I’m still affected by my W’s action to a certain extent sometimes. Like I assumed she already has a EA/PA even though I do not have hard evidence (I’m stopping myself from snooping) and sometimes my bad thoughts will appear out of nowhere to put me down. It’s tough but I Guess it’s part of my journey?

Yep, me too. I was doing pretty well and had a set back today which I'll post about on my new thread. Certainly ups and downs go along with these situations.

[AKuei]

BL,

I was reading your sitch and I had the creeps because we are almost living the same nightmare but in different places and with different people. We have such similarities that like you, I have a vested interest in following you. Not the best place to make new friends but well, we have each other now (and other awesome folks here too)!

I'll keep cheering you on and hope you can do the same for me too!

Now, some journaling to channel the frustrations away...

Last weekend the W stayed over at her friend's house (didn't ask who/where even though i was dying to know). She didn't contact me or the kids for that past few days; a first 30 mins i was getting anxiety attack but on the 31st minute till she returned I was kicking ass enjoying my time with the kids and doing things for myself! Now I fully understand that we can be happy by ourselves and you definitely can't beat that feeling!

Some changes in the W when she got back. She's not offering to pick the kids back home nowadays sporadically (99% of the time i was the one sending and fetching them so it's nice for a change), she brought the kids out to the park for walks (1st time since 4 months ago), she taking on more chores that's related to the kids (packing their school bags, washing their bottles, face masks, etc). Wonder how long she can keep it up? I'm trying to take a step back because my therapist advised my W during our one and only counselling session (she attended it once and then called it quits; saying it's not working at all but I'm still going as IC) that she's ought to spend more time with the kids.

My buddy's wedding coming up this week and he's invited us to a drinking session post that, I asked my W if she's keen to go and she said yes without a heartbeat. Felt nice for a change.

BUT......

Never trust what she says and believe half of what she does. I'm etching that into my brain.

Seems like calm before the storm, no?

[AKuei]

After a few weeks of really detaching from my W, I’ve been more at peace than I ever was. I’ve dropped hope of reconciliation and worked towards being the best single dad I am to my kids and improving myself to the best that I can.

And all of a sudden, my W texted me if it’s time to have a talk. I’ve been standing for close to a year and now she finally initiated a talk. She was asking me if I’m ready for it because she felt that I’m not ready.

I told her I’m not 100% ready but I will try my best; whatever outcome of the talk I will respect her decision.

Any advice on what to do next? I’m more or less prepared for the worst case to happen.

[SteveLW]

Akuei, prepare for the discussion by studying and truly understanding listening and validating. Practice validation skills.

If she tries to nail you down on details, just be ready to let her know you need more time. Statements like: "I am not sure about that, I need more time to process everything before I can answer that."

Listen and validate. Do not give answers you are not ready to answer. If she gets frustrated at your lack of answers, fall back to listen and validate.

[AKuei]

Thanks Steve.

She came in like a racing car; fast and furious.

She texted me asking for a divorce. I told her I don’t agree with it but if she insists I won’t stop her. Then she changed it to separation first by moving out. Again I told her the same thing; don’t agree but I won’t stop her.

Asked her about the timeline of her moving out and her plan to breaks the news to the kids she replied “slowly”.

My last message to her seems kinda like a push though: “ Ok... I not sure if this is going to push you further away but I want to let you know that I still love you with all that I have. I’ve been trying change myself for the better because I can’t change the past. Should you have a change of heart to give this marriage a try I’ll be 1000% ready to commit again. But should you choose to walk away I will totally understand too and I’m sorry that you feel that way and I’m sorry I’ve unknowingly put you thru so much hardship throughout these years. I’ve never meant for things to turn out this way. Our problem is that we don’t communicate; we kept bottling up our feelings and then we explode. And when things explode no matter what we do it’s already too little too late“

She couldn’t face me physically and chose to tell me these over messages.

The surprising thing is, I’ve felt that coming miles away and I didn’t have any anxiety Attack. I’m very calm right now (maybe I’ll feel the effects when I wake up tomorrow though haha) and I’m not thinking about winning her back at all. All I’m thinking about is my kids. They must be protected at all costs.

Guess I didn’t come out of this like a champ because of the last push message but hey, I’m still learning and I’m still standing.

Guess I need to pop sleeping pills tonight to get to bed haha...

[SteveLW]

Thanks Steve.

She came in like a racing car; fast and furious.

Yep. But she will slow it down too. Don't be surprised when her racing car comes to halt and the D stalls for weeks or months. WASs are notoriously lazy when it comes to moving the D forward. In fact, in a lot of cases, they will try to get the WAS to do the heavy lifting.

She texted me asking for a divorce. I told her I don’t agree with it but if she insists I won’t stop her. Then she changed it to separation first by moving out. Again I told her the same thing; don’t agree but I won’t stop her.

Great, you said it once. No need to repeat it. LBSs make this mistake all the time. Reminding their WAS that they don't want the D. They know that. So don't repeat it.

Asked her about the timeline of her moving out and her plan to breaks the news to the kids she replied “slowly”.

Why? Listen and validate. THis is exactly what I was talking about above. "She came at me like a racecar." "She wants to break it to the kids slowly." Doesn't really match up does it? So stop asking questions. Just listen and validate.

My last message to her seems kinda like a push though: “ Ok... I not sure if this is going to push you further away but I want to let you know that I still love you with all that I have. I’ve been trying change myself for the better because I can’t change the past. Should you have a change of heart to give this marriage a try I’ll be 1000% ready to commit again. But should you choose to walk away I will totally understand too and I’m sorry that you feel that way and I’m sorry I’ve unknowingly put you thru so much hardship throughout these years. I’ve never meant for things to turn out this way. Our problem is that we don’t communicate; we kept bottling up our feelings and then we explode. And when things explode no matter what we do it’s already too little too late“

Stop talking. Act. One of the #1 rules of DBing is to never point out the changes you are making to your WAS. The minute you do you ruin any chance that they might notice them and think they are permanent. When you say "Look at how much better I am than before!" they see it as a manipulation attempt to get them back. This entire message was a huge mistake. Let me ask you, where in DBing did you see "Send her a heartfelt message pointing out that you've changed, that you don't want a D, that you won't stop her from walking away, and once again pointing out and apologizing for your shortcomings and the problems in the MR."? THe answer is that it isn't part of DBing.

Try this, next time you get the urge to send a message like this, come here and tell the forum what you are planning to do. We can stop you from making a mistake.

She couldn’t face me physically and chose to tell me these over messages.

Out of your control. So stop trying to control it. Also, stop responding to her messages. IF it isn't about the kids....and if it isn't a direct question, then do not respond. If it is a question, respond in as few words as possible, in your own time (not right away). Yes or no questions get yes or no answers. Unless it is a question you are not ready to answer, then push it off. "I need more time to consider that."
[/quote]

The surprising thing is, I’ve felt that coming miles away and I didn’t have any anxiety Attack. I’m very calm right now (maybe I’ll feel the effects when I wake up tomorrow though haha) and I’m not thinking about winning her back at all. All I’m thinking about is my kids. They must be protected at all costs.

Not sure I believe you. But if true, good. Then let that guide your actions. Because that last message above is not in keeping with "not thinking aobut winning her back".

Focusing on your kids is the right approach.

Guess I didn’t come out of this like a champ because of the last push message but hey, I’m still learning and I’m still standing.

Guess I need to pop sleeping pills tonight to get to bed haha...

If sleeping pills will help you sleep, then take them. What I urge you is to stop reacting to her. When you react rarely will that lead you to the right actions.

[AKuei]

Steve

Thank you for the brutal advice here and i really appreciate it. Yes, I screwed up by sending her that last message, sort of like a hail mary to me but now after calming down further I've realised what a stupid message that was.

When I woke up this morning, all of my thoughts were, "How will the kids take this? How soon will she move out?". It kept replaying in my head. I supposed that's normal because this is the first time she's talking about divorcing/separation straight in my face.

I'm not sure what is next in store for me. I will try to be as normal as possible and focus my energy on the kids and myself instead.

One more thing she mentioned last night was that she said: "I will let you have the kids though." To me, it seems that not only is she abandoning me, she's going to abandon the kids too. This is not the W that I knew, previously the kids were the world to her. Makes me sad that whatever she's going thru now is making her a totally different person. MLC or WAS, it doesn't matter anymore. She's no longer the same person I've married 7 years ago.

And I would like to seek more advice on this new phase for me. Apart from GAL, focus on the kids and myself, what else can I do to get me thru this excruciating phase?

[BL42]

One more thing she mentioned last night was that she said: "I will let you have the kids though." To me, it seems that not only is she abandoning me, she's going to abandon the kids too. This is not the W that I knew, previously the kids were the world to her. Makes me sad that whatever she's going thru now is making her a totally different person. MLC or WAS, it doesn't matter anymore. She's no longer the same person I've married 7 years ago.

Get that in writing and signed off with the lawyers ASAP, if you can. I doubt she'll stick to that offer forever. Better to secure your parental rights up front (imo). Also, not sure your financial situation but that would likely result in you receiving (or at least not paying) child support.