Not sure I have a reason to hope...

[Gigi123]

It was low definitely, but like you said i didn't react didnt make a face or comment. I just dealt with it. But with you on the fact if it was a large gift sent To kids i would have to accept it.

The little things like chocolate or pack of crisps i just put in the bin, i stick to healthy eating with kids and we dont have junk at home and H knows that but still passes on stuff like that.

[may22]

Hi Sage,

Re your H's mental well-being... it does seem he is in a dark place and it has got to be really difficult to parse out all the things you're feeling, the anger/hurt/betrayal for what he's done, the concern/worry for someone you care about (or even just the father of your children, hoping it doesn't affect his parenting) and all the conflict inherent there. Ugh. All I can say is you seem like you're really doing well, able to recognize all of this while it is happening, protecting yourself so you can be the best mom you can, while still having empathy for him as a human being. It is pretty amazing-- YOU are pretty amazing.

From all I've read, being sure your kids know they can talk to you about ANYTHING is really important now-- you don't want them to not tell you something because they don't want to upset you, make you mad at dad, etc. Practice your validating skills on them! Also, if you haven't read Wooba's thread, especially earlier on, you might-- her H struggles a lot with depression and alcoholism and she had some times where she was legitimately worried about him, suicidal comments, etc.

On the gifts.... ooooh, girl. That burns me just thinking about it. Seriously. Also... WHY would she do this? That is just nuts. I agree with the others-- it is not within your control, but you are under no obligation to get them to write thank you cards. I don't think your H is in a place where any conversation about the inappropriateness of that behavior would be productive. I would do my best to ignore it. And if the gifts eventually get lost or broken, oh well.

As an aside, if I were you, I would stop calling it an EA or her an EAP. Maybe this is just me, but I know at least for me when I thought it was "just" an EA and then found out it was a PA, it changed my perspective somewhat on everything. I felt like when I thought it was "just" an EA it was somehow less of a transgression and the "EA" term minimized it somehow. I think here on the boards there is a bit of that too, the idea that an EA is not as bad or more forgivable than a PA. (I certainly know my H thought so, which was why he lied about it for so long.) Whether it was "just" an EA or a PA... I don't know that it changes anything in terms of his behavior and his choices and what they mean for you, unless the PA is a bright line for you. Would it make a difference for you?

Anyway. I think I said this earlier, but when you had your mini-reconciliation, it sounded like his guilt was so deep that (not knowing him of course, but) it seemed excessive if he hadn't crossed the physical line. And, the fact that she is sending gifts to the kids... that is so weird and seems like they might have some happily ever after fantasy going on here. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, just want you to be prepared.

And... gentle 2x4.. the AP didn't destroy the kids lives as they know it. Your H did. She was a partner in it but he is the one who has made and is making these choices. She means nothing, truly. (I am saying this but also to myself as I struggle a lot with demonizing the AP rather than facing the fact that my H is truly more responsible than she is.)

Of course you don't want to tell your children that their father is ruining their lives, so much easier to blame her... but she's a wacko who thinks it is OK to have an affair with a married man, destroy his family and potentially her own, and send his children presents. (Because, you know, true love.) She is not worthy of even your contempt. If he was thinking straight, he wouldn't let her do this and put the kids in this position, but he's in la-la land. You'll just have to be the strong one, the bigger person, and know that you're doing the right things for the right reasons.

DejaVu... holy cow. I have so much admiration for your strength and ability to rise above in order to do the best you possibly can by your kids. Thanks for sharing-- it is really good for all of us here to see what life can be like on the other side.

Thinking of you, Sage. xx

Sending a virtual hug.

[wayfarer]

Well crazy a$$ ex is a place I can help most. Literally get everything in writing.Every interaction. Anything that can be put into a legal and/or notarized document the better. Reach out to his mother yourself. Go out of your way to tell her you have no intention of ending any relationship between her and the children, and that you'd never want her to worry about that. (I know H hasn't said this to her yet, but he will, trust me) Then make sure you tell her what H said she said and try to give her a small outline of your side of things. And tell her your very sorry if she now feels in the middle but you felt it was important for her to know the things her son is saying and doing, including putting words in her mouth. Because dollars to donuts he was lying through his teeth about that whole thing. You are no longer in save this marriage mode you are in save yourself mode. Do every thing you can to protect yourself and your reputation with those close to you. He will do everything he can to make you look like poo. My exH literally told people he kicked me out because I had cheated. It had been 4 years since I ended the affair. Ignoring literally everything he did in the years following or prior including his AODA and mental health issues. The real reason I packed my things and left.

Next also dollars to doughnuts that EA isn't just an EA. Especially if she's sending the kids gifts. But I'm not 100% on that those gifts are actually from her. If she's still maintaining the facade of her family I'd bet H got those gifts and said they were from her to prime the kids for interactions with her and to p!ss you off. But I'm also starting to wonder if this really was an EA if your H has this built up way more in his head than she does like my H did. They were riding off into the sunset in his head. She was just filling her time. And I was the only one who could see it.

Do not send thank you notes.

Lastly, I second May. You can't put the weight of this on OW. Should she know better? Of course. But you were his wife. Those are his kids. These have been his choices. She was there, but he just as easily could've walked away 1,000 times but didn't

[Sage4]

I am struggling with something and could use some advice.

We had a child’s birthday recently and spent the day together as a family. It was so hard for me. I don’t like the thought of the children not having both of us on their special day, but it took such a toll on me that I don’t think I can do it again. At least not in the short term.

How did you navigate this if you have been through it before? I am working on my boundaries and this feels like a boundary that I need to make. My kids need me to be my best self and spending this much time with H the way he currently is sets me back emotionally.

I don’t want to play happy family. I don’t even want to be friends right now. I want space to heal.

But am I being unreasonable?

[LH19]

S,

I’m sorry you had such a rough day. IMO Christmas and birthdays don’t count as playing happy family. If you think it’s good for the kids then you should probably do it for them. At least until a certain age.

[Ginger1]

I can tell you a little story . We split birthdays in the beginning. We were separated when our daughter was 6 months old. On her second birthday I worked the night shift leading into her birthday, so he had our daughter to return her to me at 6 pm. I decided to go get her a bunch of balloons for when she came home . In the strip mall there was a Chuck E. Cheese I had to walk past . I look in the window and there is my daughter, my ex, his AP, and sister and father . I almost died. It was awful to be on the outside looking in at my daughter. My family. And her. Through a window.

Ever since then we have decided to spend our daughters birthday, only the 3 of us.

Today, she actually turned 13. We went horseback riding and to dinner and he came back to our house for a while to relax and have some cake. We have done this every year since.


It gets easier as the years go on. For me , personally, it was so hard to watch my baby have a birthday without me. I was quite a key player in her birth, lol. But for me, the pain of not having her was greater than the pain of having her with my ex.


You have to decide what works for you.

We don’t spend holidays together. But her birthday was something special between the 3 of us.

It’s probably her favorite day of the year too, to have us together having fun together. She loves it

[scout12]

Not at all. It's very reasonable. You don't need permission to say no to something that doesn't serve you. Write a clause into your parenting plan that says whoever doesn't have the kids on their birthday will see them for four hours after school. It's okay to explain this boundary to your kids if you decide to implement it. Your feelings matter as well.

[may22]

I don’t want to play happy family. I don’t even want to be friends right now. I want space to heal.

But am I being unreasonable?

I don't think it is unreasonable at all. I (finally) know EXACTLY how you feel, though it took me a really long time to get there. You deserve to take the space you need to heal and do what it takes to be the best mama you can to those four little ones.

That being said, also don't feel like you have to decide right now what will work for you forever. When is your next kid birthday? if it is right around the corner then by all means, figure out something to get the space you need so that you can properly focus on your child when you are with them. If you have a few months, maybe give it some time and see how you feel as you get closer.

(((SAGE))) I have been thinking so much of you. You are such a giving, kind, incredible, empathetic soul. Your H is a dumb@ss IMHO.

xoxo M

[Pommy99]

Sage, this is such a difficult situation. Both my Ds had birthdays within 5 weeks of H leaving. (14 & 16). Both times we spent the day as a happy family (at our house as we were in lockdown) then late evening he would go back to his rental. It broke my heart both times and took me days to recover. I don't know how much my girls benefitted from the happy family scenario. Perhaps they spent the day hoping that dad wouldn't go back to his other house that night; perhaps it broke their heart too when he left at the end of the day; perhaps it didn't affect them negatively at all. It hurt me seeing separate cards in the house from mum, and from dad. I also resented giving him a wonderful family day, entertaining him, giving him the best of me (in front of Ds) to make sure they had a lovely day.

I did it because I thought it was best for them. It didn't occur to me at the time (because I didn't feel it until afterwards myself) that it might be painful for them. They also had to witness me not holding it together very well for a couple of days afterwards.

How old are your children, and when is the next birthday event? You may be more detached by then; it may be an opportunity to show both yourself and H how far you have come. if the event is quite soon, then perhaps think about how much you can handle - if not a full day together, how about a shortened, fixed window of time; maybe a neutral location, then you can be the one to get up and leave. Can you think about alternative scenarios to what you have just experienced, or what you would do traditionally, and see if there is one that allows you to do what's best for the child, whilst minimizing the emotional impact on you?

Sending hugs {{{Sage}}} x

[wayfarer]

H and I both do not share birthdays or Xmas with our exes. Both exes get Xmas Eve or in my case my ex in-laws. We get the girls Xmas Day. Honestly my ex in-laws are far more likely to be with us for D17's birthday than they are with my exH. My exH on more than one occasion has completely forgotten her birthday or never got her anything or both. For D16 it's a weekend prior and weekend after and who ever's weekend it is that's their birthday weekend. Their 50/50 switch off historically was Saturdays so it just always kind of worked out even if her Bday fell on a weekend. Kids especially young ones are easily won over by the concept of a long and stretched out birthday with multiple celebrations. Same with Christmas. They adapt. It's really more us that have to reset our brains that things have changed. We have to let go of those expectations we had about all those future milestones and hoildays. And in those early years being alone is hard, but it's best to make plans and keep busy. But for most of us we meet someone new, we develop a new routine and new traditions, and it all just kind of becomes your new normal before you know it.