As for ea/pa, I can dismiss it on logistics. She works from home 100%. I have no idea where she would fit it in her day. If she leaves the house our s6 goes with her. She has no social life, like “girl nights out” etc. if I leave the house she doesn’t care if S6 comes.
Does that make sense? To have an ea/pa you have to actually have a spot in the day where it happens!
She simply views my depression/mental health (and subsequent job losses) as not her problem or something not within her scope to help with. So she has over the last 4 years used more negative energy, and ego stripping, which have yielded more depression from me.
Our attempts at CT have been ineffective. Much like how MWD describes as the typical short comings of hourly CT; too short, infrequent, “root cause based.” Instead of focusing on what each truly wanted, and building from there! Solution based.
I find MWD in Divorce Remedy and all the answers are RIGHT FREAKING THERE! black and white! God I wish I found this just a year or two ago! But, every time I googled for marriage repair direction it was seemingly all affair based or substance abuse based. Making me feel worse, that my marriage was failing simply because I’m a failure.
Now I’ve got these books, and this site, and I wish I could have a H2H conversation, show her, but those same books tell me not too. So I wait, not knowing what is happening. She knows I have the books, as our s6 opened the amazon boxes thinking they were his toys. She’s said nothing. I am reading change your life and everyone in it, and she says nothing about it. I’m reading Dave Ramsey books on money, she says nothing. I want to have a talk with her; about trying this approach, or if not come up with concrete plans for separation. None of this soft BD opaque language of “I don’t think our marriage can be saved” garbage.
One of my best friends is in R with his W thinks that advice of not having a serious H2H is poor. They just had a double ea/pa and are now back together after really hating each other, and only talking during their mediation meetings. Before that mediation was done, they had a phone call, which led to them talking, meeting up, making out, sex and bam, mediation over, and now R. Six months later they just bought a new house.
It might work, stun her, say hey, “you’re not happy, it’s not what I want, but if you truly are not happy how do you want to plan our separation?” Take emotion out of it. Then again, it might not, but if we come up with a plan and execute she can’t say I’m doing anything just to get her back. Anything I’m doing well now just gets filed away in that mental folder. At least my 180s would find a different folder.
I wonder if she’s just waiting on me to get a job. She makes a lot of money, 2x my typical salary. It would make sense for alimony and all that Jazz. We also have a ton of debt, and a house to sell. None of which can be easily settled without two incomes. I’m only guessing a lawyer or mediator would tell her that too.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
As for ea/pa, I think I can dismiss it on logistics. She works from home 100%. I have no idea where she would fit it in her day. If she leaves the house our s6 goes with her. Good, bad, or indifferent, the woman literally has no social life, like “girl nights out” for example. if I leave the house she doesn’t care if S6 comes.
Does that make sense? To have an ea/pa you have to actually have a spot in the day where it happens! If anything she has an emotional attachment with her family; parents, and sister, and nieces, in lieu of anything with me. This is not affair obviously, but is akin to one in a sense. It also makes me concerned that she wishes to move back home to rural NC, where I can’t find any meaningful work, and I’ll be separated from my son. But, this isn’t certain, she might be totally agreeable with coparenting.
She simply views my depression/mental health (and subsequent job losses) as not her problem or something that is not within her scope to properly help with. Due to my poor composure, she has over the last 4 years used more negative energy, which have yielded more depression from me, and a situation which slowly falls apart in a downward spiral.
My W uses our long failed attempts at CT as her defense for not wanting R. Our attempts at CT have been ineffective in much the same way how MWD describes as the typical short comings of hourly CT; too short, infrequent, “root cause based.” Instead of focusing on what each truly wanted, and building from there! Solution based.
I find MWD in Divorce Remedy and all the answers are RIGHT FREAKING THERE! black and white! God I wish I found this just a year or two ago! But, every time I googled for marriage repair direction it was seemingly all affair based or substance abuse based. Making me feel worse, that my marriage was failing simply because I’m a failure.
Now I’ve got these books, and this site, and I wish I could have a H2H conversation, show her, but those same books tell me not too. So I wait, not knowing what is happening. She knows I have the books, as our s6 opened the amazon boxes thinking they were new toys. She’s said nothing. I am reading change your life and everyone in it, and she says nothing about it while i read it on the couch. I’m reading Dave Ramsey books on money, she says nothing. I want to have a talk with her; about trying the DB approach, or if not come up with concrete plans for separation. None of this cowardly opaque language of “I don’t think our marriage can be saved” garbage. It’s BS, say you want D, or say you just want space. I am sick of purgatory.
One of my best friends is in R with his W thinks that advice of not having a serious H2H is poor, and i have a hard time arguing with him. They just had a double ea/pa and are now back together after really despising each other, and only talking during their mediation meetings. Before that mediation was done, they had a phone call, which led to them talking, meeting up, making out, sex and bam, mediation over, and now R. Six months later they just bought a new house.
It might work, stun her, say hey, “you’re not happy, it’s not what I want, but if you truly are not happy how do you want to plan our separation?” Take emotion out of it. Then again, it might not, but if we come up with a plan and execute she can’t say I’m doing anything just to get her back. I’m convinced that anything I am doing differently now just gets filed away in that mental folder. At least my 180s would find a different, and perhaps a better mental folder. One that makes it clear what she’s giving up.
I wonder if she’s just waiting on me to get a job. She makes a lot of money, 2x my typical salary. It would make sense for alimony and all that Jazz. We also have a ton of debt, and a house to sell. None of which can be easily settled without two incomes. I’m only guessing a lawyer or mediator would tell her that too.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
You are super focused on her. Not sure how you're going to stun her back into a happy marriage. Instead of a H2H that you clearly want to have, show her something. Actions, not words. And I don't mean reading books in front of her - that is peacocking.
Anyone could figure out that you having a job would make things better for her in a divorce not just a lawyer, but you sound reluctant to work. Do you think she respects that? Do you think she is attracted to that? She married you knowing what you do for work right? So I don't see your line of work as the problem.
Start working on you. Detach from her. Become happy with the life you are living, do what works, be attractive.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
At the direction of our CT have been meeting with our CT one on one, without my W. We have had three good solo sessions. Our CT decided that it was time to meet one on one with my W. They met for only one session last week. I had a session for tomorrow but the CT texted me that we would cancel it, as our next appointment needs to be joint session with my W. My W can’t make that sessions so she scheduled one for a different day; on Sept 4.
What does this all mean? They met one solo session, after I had met for three solo sessions. What did they discuss, and how did it just take one session?
I have basically convinced myself that this will be a session where my W confirms in more definitive language that she will want to separate/divorce. As I mentioned in my first post, our last joint session nearly 3 mos ago was her giving language that said, “I don’t think this marriage can be saved,” but nothing further. I think she and the CT have found a need that I should be told under no uncertain terms of her desire to separate, and they will further use the session so that the CT can guide us from there.
Since our last joint session I’ve done some 180s, and have followed the DB tips. The results have been a far more friendly and livable atmosphere. We laugh, tell jokes, play with our kid. But, I can’t get it out of my head that she simply doesn’t want to change her mind, and will proceed with a separation. In light of that I have tried to piece together a good DB reply to anything she says asking for a separation.
That said, my response based off how I feel right now would be words to this effect;
“I've been doing a lot of thinking, and while this is NOT what I would have wished upon anyone, I have come to the realization that I WILL BE OKAY no matter what happens. I still don't want to separate, but for now there are some things I want to work on, just for me. In short I want to strive everyday to be the best version of myself possible.”
How does this sound?
Sure, I could just be overly pessimistic. However, I have 4 appointments, 1 per week, booked with the CT through the month of September for either solo or couple use. I texted the CT, “should we keep those September appointments booked,” and the CT said “only if W can do one of those times with you.”
This makes me feel like only one appointment is needed, and it will be a definitive BD, and no further appointments really need be scheduled. Or it could be that we simply need a joint meeting first, so she can R, but I can’t imagine it being needed unless it’s a major BD, but I also could just be reading too deep into it.
Since it’s me in the storm it’s sometimes hard to see my way out of it.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
“I've been doing a lot of thinking, and while this is NOT what I would have wished upon anyone, I have come to the realization that I WILL BE OKAY no matter what happens. I still don't want to separate, but for now there are some things I want to work on, just for me. In short I want to strive everyday to be the best version of myself possible.”
" W a separation is not what I want but if that's what you want I won't stand in your way"
Short and to the point. I see what you are trying to do but words mean nothing to her right now. She wants to see actions with you. I think a separation is good for you to show her you can stand on your own two feet.
Be strong and keep your emotions in check. This is the first half mile of the marathon.
I’m certainly not reluctant to work. However, the job market is not booming right now. I am certainly trying.
What are some slam dunk actions I can do? I am not looking for one thing to fix all my problems, but if there is some low hanging fruit I might have missed. I do 90% of the house work right now, and help with our S. Of course if I slip and miss something she’ll point it out to me.
She has said I don’t take feedback well. So I try and stay positive about anything she says and break the negative feedback cycle which has led to contempt.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
Work, Gym and take care of your son. Go out and meet with friends. Be mysterious.
Even if you do everything 100% perfectly starting today, this is still a months/years-long turnaround.
When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.
As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.
If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.
Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a years long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"
Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, its an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.
Over time, you have *trained each other* what to expect from the other. She knows how you will react to any given situation, what you will say, how you will act, and she has decided that's not compatible with what she wants.
If you decide you don't want that either, and decide to make a change for yourself, initially she'll think you're just doing it as a gambit to get her back and as soon as she lets her guard down, you'll revert to who you "really are" in terms of who you've trained her that you are.
In order to turn this around she needs to *fully believe* that you've changed, and that you're not doing it just to get her back.
How do you convince her of that?
(1) Repetition, lots and lots of repetition in terms of reacting differently, acting differently, than you have historically.
(2) Acting differently when no one is looking
(3) Finding a life for your new self that doesn't require her. That's the only way you make it credible that your changes are for you. She won't even see them until she believes that you don't need her.
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your son, and anger and resentment over your role in pushing her to this point.
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. I will face my fear. I will let it pass over me. When the fear has gone, there shall be nothing. Only I will remain."
Your previous post is pure gold. I have seen it posted many times and I shake my head yes every time I read it. If we all could have read, understood, believed and acted on changing behaivors a few years ago we may not be here today. Good stuff. Your advice is spot on as far as i’m concerned.
Thanks for all the help you provide to us newbies.
Taz
M59 (53@BD) XW56 (50@BD) S26 (20@BD) S24 (19@BD) Married 25 (22@BD) Together 28 BD 9/29/19 (moved out unannounced while I was on fishing trip) W filed 10/19/20 (Informed me via text) D final 11/10/22
LH, Your previous post is pure gold. I have seen it posted many times and I shake my head yes every time I read it. If we all could have read, understood, believed and acted on changing behaivors a few years ago we may not be here today. Good stuff. Your advice is spot on as far as i’m concerned.
Thanks for all the help you provide to us newbies. Taz
Taz I appreciate the kind words. I have read many books and many posts in these forum and am happy to share what I have to learn to help people through the most difficult times in their life. My hear goes out to everyone on the forum and especially the newbies. I just want them to know that life does get better and they won't always feel the way they do today.
