Thread name inspired by bttrfly--these are the core values I want to look to as I navigate this next part of the road. Right now I need to direct a lot of fierce compassion toward myself for engaging too much with H yesterday.
I am reading all of your advice--thank you so much, DnJ, kml, wooba, may, job. I have so many questions right now and am dying to get guidance from a L. In the meantime, being able to post questions here is helping me not go crazy. I didn't sleep well last night as it hit me again--I don't feel safe in my home. I still don't think there is a real threat of violence (though H is so erratic, I can't get myself to feel 100% safe in that regard either), but I am starting to recognize many of H's tactics as emotional abuse, even if he doesn't intend them that way. I am feeling some anger, but I think it's meant to protect me, to alert me that H is shaming me (for SSM to my face and telling me about how he tells all his friends about it, and they can't believe he was married to me, etc), gaslighting me, threatening me, telling me I am crazy and everyone thinks I am crazy... the list goes on. I can recognize now that this comes, at least partly, from his desire to protect himself from feeling shame or responsibility. He rages and then of course this morning he's acting calm again and engaging with me about unrelated things in a friendly manner, like nothing happened
D, you are right that I am definitely getting ramped up about L $ expectations. My IC mentioned something about tens of thousands of dollars, but I'm sure that would be if there was a court battle, which I just can't see happening in our situation, since there are no big assets. I am telling myself that I will know more once I meet with a L. Because for the sake of my mental and emotional health, I don't think I can do this without a L. For all of the reasons you describe in your own situation, D: a L knows what they're doing, a L can advise me on just how much H is blowing smoke, a L can reassure me that no matter what he threatens, X, Y, or Z is what the courts would decide.
I'm still confused about what would happen if I request through my response papers that H pay my legal fees. Can the court actually make him? And would he just pay it out of our savings anyway? I don't know if anyone here can answer this. And I imagine this of course would make him fly off the handle--how dare I expect him to pay for this--and could mean he's even less willing to negotiate the settlement. But if he is going to be angry no matter what, it doesn't make sense to let this fear of H not negotiating drive my decisions, does it? The more I am afraid of his anger, the more power I give him.
Originally Posted by DnJ
You cannot force a MLCer to do anything. Apply force, and they will come out swinging.
And you cannot reason with them. These are desperate people and desperate people do desperate things. You trying to reason with H will be seen as a threat and he will push back.
For right now, let your L gather the information. You’re going to need to at some point. You cannot trust H anyhow, he will try to hide stuff.
This is very clear to me. If I am acting rationally and not emotionally, and listening to the advice of everyone here, my parents, my friends, and my IC, I go to a L, and I let the L gather information. That is literally what everyone is telling me. I fear H's reaction. I fear the cost. But that can't stop me from acting. And H does come out swinging when I suggest or try to reason with him. I have suggested mediation so many times now, and clearly that is not working. Maybe at some point he will suggest it. Last week my IC suggested saying, H, I will either need a L or mediation. Those are my terms. You choose. But it doesn't seem like that will work either with someone like H, does it?
Originally Posted by DnJ
It’s tough not to blow up in face of all that smugness. Remember play the long game, stay indifferent.
Of course I was a mess and just kept drinking my STFU smoothie. I listened to my L and followed his advice. I suspect he knew much better than I what he was doing. Ha, that’s a dumb statement - of course he knows better. He’s a lawyer!
Originally Posted by DnJ
Leverage. To negotiate you need to know what the other wants. MLCers drop lots of clues, listen carefully.
I tried to stay indifferent in the face of the various "deals" he was throwing out, eg if I give him the house, I can have the cats. I didn't respond to that other than to say I am on the lease and have as much entitlement to the house as he does. He knows I want to stay here because I stated my intention after he said he was moving out. That or who knows what (I mean, just asking him for financial docs was enough to set him off) apparently caused him to swing wildly back to I don't deserve the house and should be the one to MO.
I did pick up on the fact that the only time H seemed to admit wrong and appear contrite was when he admitted to taking all of the savings money without telling me. I'm hoping this could give me leverage, as I could consider overlooking that entirely.
I know he is offended that I would try to take any portion of the pension he worked so hard for, while I was on a ten-year vacation as he sees it now. But I am very hesitant to give up on that, as my future financial security is very important, as important as keeping myself afloat in the present while I am applying for jobs.
Oh, and job or others: about the giftcards--I've thought of that, but now am reluctant to spend any money from our joint checking account, as I don't know what I'm entitled to and what I'm not, and H will definitely notice if I start using my debit card for purchases.
Please send like ten million STFU smoothies my way. I think I'll need a constant supply. And Gerda, yell louder in my ear just to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way."
