CW... thank you. It sounds like it went well. He hasn't shared details of exactly what he is going to say to her but I don't really need to know, I think, except for the broad strokes. He knows what I have asked for in order to go on this trip and try to work on our relationship. He'll do it or he won't. He said last night he plans on doing it today. We haven't really talked much so I don't know what the deal is. Trying to continue to not GAF either way.
BlueSea, thank you for that story... I was thinking about your RV trip in all of this. I don't want to go if she's still in the picture. But I think you're right in that I want to be able to focus on the children and having fun and not feel worried about what he's thinking or doing or whatever. We have been talking about doing an MC session before we leave to talk about communication. I feel like I gave him a lot of space in the spring when he broke it off with her last time, and now he's saying he never felt we really reconnected during that time. I think we weren't really communicating about real stuff or feelings during that time.
I guess I'm wondering if we do go on this trip if I treat it like piecing or just keep DBing a la Wayfinder (Wayfinder, any thoughts?). I think the key was that last time I never felt like we were piecing because he never looked me in the eyes and said he wanted to work on our M, that he could envision M2.0. He mostly moped around feeling sorry for himself and I gave him space and then started to get all freaked out that he was going to want to sweep this all under the rug and never address the A.
This time there are some key differences-- he's talked about M2.0, falling back in love with me, feeling like this time he's saying goodbye to her for good, not with this half-hearted thought in the back of his head that he'd "try" with me for a year and it wouldn't work and maybe she'd still be waiting around... he feels like this is it, now. So, assuming he does do what I'm asking, and he continues to talk about working on our MR in a real way and not half-@ssing it like last time, I feel like we're in a different place, somewhat. We will see. He has a loooooong way to go for me to trust him again and a lot of stuff he needs to work on for himself, why he did this, etc etc. And I have things to work on too. And we would have to build our MR up from the ground all over again. But this time he's the one talking about that, not me.
Quote
I have to be honest, I don't know what, if anything, your H could say or do which will give you the comfort that you need that he will NEVER contact her. I don't think he could confidently tell you he will NEVER contact her again. It is like an addict saying there will never be a time when they want to take a hit again. What you have to ask yourself, is right, now are you willing to take it one day at a time.
He has to have the will power to say "No - today my actions will not be driven by my desires". And that is something only he can control. If he contacts her, you will never know. So you have to make a conscious decision to trust him (or not). If you do not trust him, then all his words and all his actions will make no difference. He sits on the toilet too long and in your mind he is texting, he goes for a walk, and in your mind he is texting, his phone beeps and in your mind it is her.
FS, you are totally right. In fact, this was the prime "concession" I made in our conversation over the weekend-- he said all those same things, he can't predict the future, he can't say he'll never ever speak to her again. All he can say is that he does not intend to reconnect with her and that is something he will need to do every day.
Last time, he wanted to have access to her contact information so that he felt he was making a conscious choice in not reaching out to her rather than leaning on technology. In fact, if it were up to him, he would like to do the same this time. I am holding to (a) we tried that before and it didn't work (b) you should set yourself up for success and there is a reason we tossed all the sugary snacks in the house before we did the Whole 30, and by the end we weren't craving sugar any more; and (c) *I* need more than your word this time, so that isn't going to be enough for me. Plus, the biggest part for me is the bomb she threw in May, she's moving on, which I believe started all of this. It wormed into his mind and he ended up reaching back out to her with a stupid excuse and it just cascaded from there.
I spent a lot of time angry with him for not really trying in the spring, and he has said over and over he DID try. And I have come to the conclusion that I believe he did, in fact, really try. But by not cutting off all communication channels with her, and leaving that key difference open in his mind-- he was not recommitting to the M but simply ending his A, and wasn't truly letting go of any possibility of being with her again-- he set us up to fail. So I do trust his intention and words when he tells me he has the intention of never speaking to her again. I just need some technological support around it and to remove the ability for her to throw any more bombs in our lives. But fundamentally, I do trust him if he does this. Maybe if he was more agreeable to doing it in the beginning I'd trust it less. But he is DEFINITELY not telling me what I want to hear in any of this, which gives me more faith that when he says something, it is true. And I'm kind of a trusting fool. I talked about this with my IC. It has bit me at work in the past. But I'm also okay with that. That is who I am and I don't want to change it, and I'll take the hits that inevitably come with that. So, yes, I do feel like I'll have enough trust to enjoy this trip if he does as I've requested.
But anyway, I acknowledged that what I need is his intention to end contact with her and his intention to work on the MR with me, which necessitates him doing all he can to remove her from his head. I am no longer asking him to tell me he'll never speak to her again. Saying that his intention is to never speak with her again, today, is all he can do and all I am asking. This change was helpful for him. (Though maybe more about me admitting I was wrong to ask something he can't give than the actual change-- I think it felt less like me dictating what he should do because I was willing to listen to him and adjust.)
We also talked about him holding onto the vigilance for me-- instead of me needing to ask "who are you texting with" him knowing that at least for awhile it will be on my mind and doing me the favor of saying "oh I just got this text from so-and-so" so that I don't have to worry. He actually started doing this already the last couple of days, which is kind of nice. I'm waiting to see if he'll do this with the blocking etc., or if I need to ask. I really really really don't want to be the one to ask.
Anyway... FS I was also thinking again how similar our situations are. I am also half-Asian (Japanese) and of course you know my H used to be a pilot. I was thinking how much that job must reinforce the ego-- being the captain, everything you say goes, everyone is deferential to you. I know for myself in my job, I need to be careful what I say in meetings because if I am too decisive in what I say everyone else will just shut up and the decision was made without getting input from others. I need to purposely hold my thoughts and encourage others to share. But I also recognize how heady and attractive that feeling can be for some people-- what you say goes, everyone listens. My H's job is absolutely that-- he is a consultant and his entire job is telling people what to do and they eat it up all day long-- and then you come home to a W who feels like it is her job to sometimes take you down a notch. I think it is hard for him to code switch at home to being a partner instead. And TBH it is probably hard for me to do the same, sometimes.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
