Trying to Detach

[may22]

Thanks Alison, KC!

KC-- nice to see you here!

I agree with you that he is motivated by fear of loss. That is definitely a dynamic between him and AP and also between the two of us, when I start to move away. And you're totally right about him having ropes to me that can act as a safety net, though I'd always thought about it in the other direction-- I will never get to have a clean break from him. However,

Your fears of pulling the trigger yourself and then not being able to take it back.

This isn't where I am. My fear of walking today would be that five years from now, my younger daughter would be acting out and I would be filled with regret that if only I had tried harder with her dad we would still be M and she would be better off. (I'm more worried about D8 than D10, not sure why.) When I walk, it won't be trying to call his bluff. It will be for good. Right now, I can't imagine wanting him back if he leaves-- to me, for whatever reason, that is the bright line.

On the co-parenting thing... what you describe is like my worst nightmare. I don't want to have pizza with him or share in the kids accomplishments. I want to have as little to do with him as humanly possible. I know that is probably not possible but especially if AP is in the picture, I want to see him from the car at kid exchanges and that is about it. I want to be on the other side of the room at events buffered by all my friends who are glaring daggers at him and he ends up leaving early because no-one will talk to him. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. (And there is the not-so-nice May coming out.) But I simply don't want to have anything to do with him in that situation. And maybe that will change with time-- it probably will-- but that is how I feel, very very very strongly.

We have been doing things apart with the kids, as well as together, though being together 24-7 with Covid is pretty nuts. We had a good day today and I do think I did three things for myself, thank you for suggesting it! I slept in, took the girls to the craft store and shopped a little bit, read a novel, and cooked an amazing dinner I'd been planning for a couple of days (sous vide short ribs). Let H put the girls to bed and enjoying a nice beer. (so five!) no R talks, no trip talks, just regular exchanges all day.

I wonder May, if you can make some decisions now that would get you towards a good divorce or a good marriage? I think those decisions are fundamentally the same - respect for yourself, clear communication, respect for the autonomy of others, honest about your needs and desires, etc etc. You don't have to decide what path you are on yet.

And in your situation, I think for either a good marriage or a good divorce, the pair of you need to experience you saying NO to your husband's manipulation, and him accepting that.

Alison, I think I can do this, at least partially. I've been thinking on this all day. My H used to have a rage channel. it was his primary one he'd default to when he got frustrated or angry, and would always blow the blame off on someone else (usually me). It would make me crazy and I'd go nuts back and tell him I refused to be treated like this and then we'd end up screaming at each other and I'd nurse a grudge for days. (This was part of what fed into the SSM.)

About a year ago, after reading DB, I simply stopped responding to this when it would happen. I wouldn't yell or get angry. I might say calmly "don't speak to me like that" and would remove myself from the situation. And... it hardly ever, ever happens now. When it does, he catches himself right away and apologizes. I also am OK with say a vocal frustration (like GD it!! if he drops something) whereas before even that would trigger me.

So, I feel like I need to do the same thing with the self-pity channel. The charm channel... that's kind of his default and I can't say I hate it. But the self-pity and self-absorbed channels, whining about AP, blaming me and the SSM, refusing to take responsibility-- that I can turn off. I feel I've been much less responsive in the last couple of weeks than ever before. I just need to turn it up a notch and be more consistent. (I used to be an animal trainer so I actually should be better at this than I am.)

The other thing I think I need to do more of (though this is probably not DB-ing, but if it gets me where I need to be authentically, so be it) is to be more honest about my needs and desires rather than shoving them down for the sake of not acting like I'm pursuing him or controlling him or whatever. I know this is a fine line, especially since he is quite alert to anything that smacks of May control. And, also, I do think our R post children and prior to the A was one big power struggle between the two of us. I think now he feels like he's in the drivers seat and by returning to the M he's handing back over the keys to me... which isn't what I want (and definitely not what he wants). But at the same time I do think it isn't healthy for me to just go along with my mouth shut.

The other dynamic that is at play here, though, is that I gave up a lot of self-care and doing things for myself after I had kids. I felt guilty about it and stopped, and thought my H should stop too. Also, while I love to travel and plan trips, on a day-to-day basis I can easily get stuck at home rather than get out the door to do something-- while H loves to be exploring, getting out of the house, etc. When we were in our power struggle phase, I think I started to lean on staying at home more and more partially to assert my own independence, but to my detriment because then I sat at home fuming with the kids while he went out and did fun things, or we'd both sit home with low-level resentment towards the other.

So a side effect of me trying to 180 on this behavior is that I've totally rediscovered things that I love to do. Hiking is a great example-- we used to hike together a ton before kids. Then I basically stopped and he'd go on his own, occasionally. Now we've been going as a family and I'd forgotten how much I love it, how good it is to be outside, how amazingly gorgeous this place we live is. I feel stronger and better about myself. Camping was the same thing-- the last time we went camping pre-A i complained the entire time because I didn't really want to do it. We've been twice now in the last six months and both times I loved it, had forgotten how amazing it is to get out of the city and see the stars. As soon as I let go of all the power struggle resentment, the enjoyment came rushing back and I am really grateful for that.

H has always pushed me like this and while it does get him what he wants-- the family out the door and outside-- it also is healing and expanding for me. This is part of the reason I want to go on this trip, regardless of him-- because I like this side of myself that I'm rediscovering and I don't want to let it go. I know I can still do all this stuff without him. But we have fun, as a family. I'm just not sure we can be H and W again.