I discover H involved in an EA in the fall of 2019. He tells me that she is nothing to him, although he admits that their R instigated his deep exploration of our R and realization how unhappy he has been (total news to me... he has always been happy, loving, committed and connected up until this recent disclosure). He has recently entered into IC and feels like he has done a lot of work on himself and towards this decision.
He vacillates between wanting to make the marriage work and re-writing our history, telling me he isn't sure he was ever in love with me, although he does love me. We have had emotional separation, followed by physical separation, followed by a recent intense reconciliation, then a 180 back to the beginning again. I am exhausted and have been trying to keep balanced throughout it all. H is super sensitive, anxiously attached and has a lot of childhood trauma. So going NC, or even treating him like the friendly neighbor has had the opposite effect in my sitch. He sees it as more of the same treatment from me (I struggled with depression, now medicated and working on it, SSM, struggled to keep my balance between having 4 kids and building a successful business that required a lot of work travel for H). I checked out of the marriage at various points, as did he.
At this moment, he believes he will be happier without me, but he is scared to pull the trigger. I don't want a D. I am so grateful for this board and the support.
You know I'm still right here next to you.... I feel like we are going through much the same path, except that my H has been in this place now for 2.5 years rather than 10 months and also is totally in love with his AP.
If you're following my thread you know where I am (and where I'm not, yet) with all of this. I think Alison gave you some really good advice on your end-- no point in working for four months on an M with someone who isn't fully committed. I mean, I just did that with someone who was saying he was committed with his mouth but wasn't truly committed in his heart, and it didn't get me very far. He felt like he was trying, but it was pretty half-@ssed, and I just don't think that is good enough to make any progress. I think your H has to want it and believe it is possible in order to "try". A shoddy four months of trying will just give him the check box out of "I gave it my best shot" rather than really have much real hope of success. It is like MC when they're ambivalent. Not really worth the time and energy, unless you're specifically in discernment or otherwise trying to move out of ambivalence within a certain time frame.
I asked my H to describe what M2.0 would look like, best case scenario. He honestly can't even do it. He just can't visualize not loving AP and falling back "in love" with me. There's a big part of me that is fighting that and saying well, of course he can't visualize it because he's so deep into fantasyland with AP that it would be crazy to imagine he could, and if only he could get the space and untangle himself there he would be able to see that future with me. The part you say about knowing in your bones what is best for him, and Alison gently saying maybe you don't but also how it comes off to him-- I know absolutely this is a dynamic in my own situation and my H is so so feeling like I'm not really listening to him, I'm dismissing his feelings, I'm setting out a course of action like I always do and expecting him to fall into line.
The hard thing is... no matter what you or I think or don't think is possible, it isn't just up to either of us, alone. *He* needs to feel it and believe it, consistently. And thought your H doesn't have the same sitch in terms of an AP I think that many of the same drivers are likely there, a longing for what could be, some fantasy situation, if only he wasn't too scared to follow his heart. I think there might also be some weird male thing happening here where they feel trapped and like somehow it is more pathetic or cliche for them to stay in their safe M rather than be free and following their authentic selves (or whatever). Whereas THAT path just seems like so cliche MLC and pathetic from my perspective, the equivalent of hair plugs and a convertible. But whatever. I know we shouldn't be trying to mindread our confused and sorry Hs.
Anyway, just wanted to say I know what you're going through, I'm doing it myself, and it is so so hard. Can you follow that same path you did before, dropping the rope and being OK with the next steps? How did you get there? (And maybe you can tell me the magic elixir? )
Also, does it have to be D if you aren't ready for that and he isn't ready to recommit? Is there some version of legal S you are OK with that could protect you and the children but not make you be the one to pull the actual trigger if that isn't what you want right now? I know you've gone through the whole separation part, which I have yet to experience, and it must be so hard on the kids to have him back and then maybe gone again. That is really unfair and messed up of him.
(((SAGE))) Hang in there.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
It’s been a while since I have updated, so here goes…
After H’s major Hollywood-style reconciliation, he has once again turned a 180 and is now planning on renting that expensive place for a year and moves out in August. I have been all over the place emotionally, but when he told me his decision, I felt at peace and calm about it. The rollercoaster, the back-and-forths (I love you! I can’t live without you! I don’t love you! I can’t live with you!) has started to test my sanity. His vacillations have made me realize what a mess he must be inside and that I am not responsible for breaking him, nor for fixing him. The only possible way we can have any sort of M2.0 is letting him go completely.
Easier said than done, of course, and after all of this I am not even sure that we have enough bones of goodness to even consider a future, if one ever presents itself.
I am proud to say that I am the most detached I have ever been. When he rails and rants at me, his accusations are so clearly a projection from within him that I don’t take it personally. I listen for germs of truth, validate when and where I can, but have put up personal boundaries surrounding his projections. They’re not mine to own or deal with.
He has so many issues from childhood that are rearing their ugly heads right now and I feel like the catchall for all that happened in his youth. This, combined with his indecision, his impulsive decision-making, his meanness towards me, his EA, his depression and his complete lack of understanding that his decisions are not made in a vacuum, they directly impact the children and I, all lead me to believe that maybe he is in the midst of a MLC. I don’t know much about MLCs, but from what I have read on these boards, he ticks all the boxes.
I am trying to recognize why it is important to me to compartmentalize H’s behavior… is this a control mechanism on my part? That this all makes sense if he is having an A, or is in the midst of a MLC, or has some sort of mental illness. Is that because I need to resolve myself of responsibility? Or is it because his behavior is so out of character that I can only ‘stand’ in our M if I externalize it all? And maybe it doesn’t really matter if the results are the same: I am able to detach and find my way into a healthy life without H.
Any advice on MLC, or any thoughts on my role in all of this greatly appreciated.
Sage, I have been posting over on MLC for a while. I thought my X was having a quarter life crisis at first. He was a runaway H who left me a year after the birth of our baby. Was he uncomfortable with the monumental life change? Yes. Was he having an affair? Yes. Was it a quarter life crisis? Maybe. Was it acceptable to me? Absolutely not.
Defining the problem is just a survival mechanism your brain uses to reconcile the unpalatable fact that your life partner has viciously and carelessly turned on you. My advice would be to stop untangling the skein. Does it matter why he does what he does or why he is who he is? The only question should be is this acceptable to you or not.
Take the focus off your H. I posed these questions to May and you might find it useful to think about them as well. What do you want in a partner? What values are important to you, and important for your children to learn? How do you want to be treated in a relationship? What unmet needs did you have in the M?
Scout gave you some really good advice. Typically LBS feel that if they can diagnose it then they can move on To curing it like cancer. There are not protocols to cure these labels. The only treatments are time and space. Unfortunately if you are correct and it is MLC you are looking at a 5-7 year adventure.
When I look back on my marriage of 17 years, I had 14 really good one and 3 that were not so fun lol. That’s not so bad these days. Unfortunately at midlife people change and not always for the better. The best thing you can do is accept they changed and hope it’s not permanent and realize that there is nothing you can do to control it. Take the focus completely off them and put it on to you and your children.
Know that not matter what you’re going to be fine.
I am proud to say that I am the most detached I have ever been. When he rails and rants at me, his accusations are so clearly a projection from within him that I don’t take it personally. I listen for germs of truth, validate when and where I can, but have put up personal boundaries surrounding his projections. They’re not mine to own or deal with.
Hi Sage, This is great. You sound really good to me. You've really been through the wringer recently and I'm so impressed with how you're holding up and continuing to detach and be strong. Huge props to you.
I second (third?) Scout and LH on this-- it really doesn't matter if it has a label or not. I like how LH has put it-- if it were a cancer diagnosis and you could identify the exact genetic fail and then go through the proscribed protocols to get an x% chance of saving your M... it seems so sane and normal. Something went wrong. you identify the problem. you do your best to fix it. But when the problem is outside of your control to heal, there is just no point in expending energy on his problems. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. it is up to you to take care of yourself and your kids and him to figure out his own demons. It sounds like he has quite a bit on his plate with childhood issues, etc. Hopefully he has a good IC.
I have copied the advice you wrote on my thread onto my phone and keep looking at it when I am feeling down. So I hope you can do the same for yourself... remember this isn't your fault; save your precious energy for you, not your H; have compassion for yourself; stay at 30,000 feet; don't forget the self-care; know your feelings will change; you are adored and worthy of great things. Hug those kids and do something nice for yourself today. I actually think once he is out of the house and you're no longer kicked out on the nesting thing you'll be much , much freer to focus on yourself. How much do you need to see him for the business side of things?
hang in there, Sage!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Thank you Scout12 (you are so calm and wise! Stop untangling the skein is the best analogy), LH and May... I really appreciate the thoughtful responses.
I have had some anxiety about the separation, namely finances and the children. I have started conversations with H about splitting finances and in the middle of it, I had an out of body experience where my mind said 'is this really happening? Are we really talking about this? What the actual? This isn't real!!' Trying to calm that inner voice, shush her into oblivion so that I may accept my reality. It's so, so hard.
But I know that my best move right now is to continue to detach. I have no more interest in fixing him or joining him on this journey. It's his to figure out, not mine. I will only get hurt and cause more damage if I continue to stay in this place with him. 'Dragged by the rope I refuse to drop' some might say. Nope. No more.
That doesn't mean that I don't have moments of tears or sadness about my situation. And I know this sounds crazy, but I don't really intuitively feel like it is really over. Kind of like I am going through the motions, supporting his decision, validating, but knowing somewhere deep that we will end up together in the long term. Or maybe I am mixing that intuitive emotion up with the knowledge that I will be fine no matter what, with or without him? Outcome is the same either way, so I suppose it is not a bad thread of hope to hold onto?
I don't expect a whole lot of change or momentum to happen in my situation for the foreseeable future, but I like how Alison was able to reflect on how far she has come by re-reading her old threads so I hope to use this place to journal and reflect. Bear with me if it gets boring...
I understand that out of body anxiety, Sage. I experienced that a lot in the days and weeks after H moved out. We had been unhappy for a long time and the marriage was really really not working for either of us. I'd tried everything I could think of, we'd already had a horrendous and failed attempt at therapy and I'd been asking him to leave for months. But when he did, it was like a big part of my mind just could not process it. What had felt unbreakable and forever (for better or worse - and that security did more often than not feel like a miserable trap than a sanctuary) had broken - totally broken - and I could not even begin to imagine a way that fixing it would be possible. I do think that was shock, and trauma. Partner bonds are strong and more long lasting and deep in some ways than the bonds we have with our parents. And even if that bond is miserable and toxic, it is still a part of every single aspect of your life.
If you are in immediate financial vulnerability, I would advise getting a professional representative - a lawyer - to act for you. It needn't mean a divorce: you can get a temporary separation agreement around finances. And if you are not in immediate financial vulnerability, treat yourself as someone who has just been in a horrendous car crash and has walked away from a burning wreck. Sweet tea, early nights, gentle television and calming hobbies, time outside, routine, good food and no emotional or logistical demands. I know kids and work does not always make that possible. Maybe treating your shocked and injured heart can only happen for an hour, or half an hour a day. Whatever. Do what you can and it will be good enough.
Having been through a period of S already with H, I don't fear it any longer. I secretly welcome the space to be on my own, decorate my newly-renovated house without his harsh and mean judgement and even (though I never thought I would be here) I welcome the thought of child-free days in my own house (what a marvel, I have never had this before). So the fear of S doesn't resonate with me, although it did before our initial period of S.
And as far as financial insecurity, I don't fear that either. H's thoughts were that he would just maintain status quo for me as long as it took for him to make his decision. That he would maintain my lifestyle to the degree I was used to (here's a pretty check, Pet, you don't need to worry!). But that doesn't work for me. I want to make decisions based upon my own financial security, my own abilities to save and decide what I want to spend MY money on. Not to be beholden to him. And frankly, I have been the money person in our R and I am concerned about his own poor decision-making surrounding money as he has never really had to deal with it before. To be fair, he gained control of our credit and took over some of the money stuff, but his new rental (FFS, I would BUY a house before I spent that on rent for a year!!) is testament to his inability to make sound financial decisions for US (it might be good for him, but not us). So my anxiety has been a product of his view vs my view of a S. And probably my fear of the wrath of my standing up for splitting finances (I want to split the house, cars, child-related costs, but not the business at this time).
Yes to sweet tea and long baths and runs in the woods. Yes to the self-care mechanisms. Yes to taking ownership of my own happiness and being. I am trying. Desperately.
For those of you who have experienced the back and forth of monstering then kindness from your partners, is there any rhyme or reason behind it? We will have a decent, kind day together and then seemingly out of nowhere H becomes toxic again. I try to validate and get to the bottom of his anger (without losing this detachment I have been fostering and feeling deep within me lately), but I can’t always gain a toehold on the cause. Is he trying to push me away? I’m not really ‘there’ for him to push against at the moment. Is he dealing with his own sh*t and momentarily needs to take it out on me? It hurts me feelings, as a human being, even though I am detaching.
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