No changes on WAW - Pack_19 Part II

[SteveLW]

Pack_19, outside the box thinking is INSIDE THE DB BOX THINKING. And what I see in your long post......is VERY little DBing.

Wife: "W came back saying I am miserable for deducing 200 Eur a month in alimony when that is no difference in my lifestyle and would mean she might need to consider moving out"

Your response should have been: "I see that you are upset. However, I prefer to have legal matters discussed between our Ls. Please have your L respond to mine. What I won't do is stand here and be spoken down to." THEN TURN AND LEAVE!!

Later at the party with my friends a good friend of mine told me if I can pay those extra 200 Eur is just money and worth avoiding the friction with my W and I should see this as the responsibility of having 2 children in this world. I am very lost, I have tried to make a stand as a man and she has used D as a threat because all of a sudden her financial situation is no longer secure as she needs alimony (well she always claims is for the kids and I am taking money from them and forcing them to move out). She has used this as an excuse to say I have not changed and I still have the same issues with money and blaming her and she says when I "really"change she will see it. I dont know what to do, I will see my L again Wednesday but I am torn between the decision to pay her all she wants or remain strong and get D because she is just in that point (I am also sick of hearing "my feelings havent changed since I left"). Those 200 Eur mean nothing to me, is more the feeling of paying for her new life where all doors are shut to the monster I am and our M vows are useless words on a paper.

Be very careful with advice from people that are too close to your situation. And yes, a good friend is too close. Your friend has only one goal, he is trying to get your pain to stop as quickly as possible. He sees you in pain and it pains him. So he suggests something that "smooths things over" in an effort to get you to a pain-free place as quickly as possilble. This friend's heart is in the right place, but his advice is all wrong. See my suggested response above? You need to command respect right now. If you have any chance of ever Ring, it will not be by trying to nice her back. Women cannot be attracted to a man they do not respect, and your W does not respect you. 200 Eur here, 200 Eur there. She will try to bilk you for every Eur she can. Standing up for yourself may not make her like you, but by golly it will make her respect you!

In high school, there as a girl I was interested in. She was very cute. One day I finally worked up the nerve during class to turn around to her (she sat right behind me) and say something flirtatious to her. Her response was "I am going to have my BF kick your -donkey-." LOL I looked at her and said "Fine, tell him to bring it on." And turned back around.

The next day I didn't acknowledge her. Finally, during some open time in class she tapped my on the shoulder. I turned around and she struck up a conversation with me. She never once mentioned her BF again to me, and a few weeks later she intimated to me that they had broken up. I could tell she was interested but my feelings by that time had changed,and we remained friends through high school. My response to her initial threat, and then my acting "as if" afterward made her respect me. And with respect comes attraction.

You should have seen the face on my S6 when I told him I had to leave and hugged him, he was sad, upset and broken. Yes Sandi you are right, I dont like this woman and the way she treats me with no respect or admiration. I am a monster to her and the source of all this unhappiness, but I would try to change that for the sake of my children. I am afraid you are right and I cannot change her feelings or make her love me again.

Always tough to see the kids in pain because their parents are splitting up. But that is out of your hands. You did the right thing by not staying. AS long as she treats you with no respect you need to continue to distance yourself from her. Be his father, but stop trying to be her husband. One day your S will understand whose fault all this was.

Your goal right now is to COMMAND respect. Do not verbally demand it, that will sound weak and unattractive. Just act in ways that COMMAND it. Like the above. When she is being disrespectful, END THE CONVERSATION AND WALK AWAY. We teach people on to treat us. You need to start teaching her that she cannot treat you that way.

I have spent the weekend at the beach with friends but I was down. I keep having this feeling that all she wants is financial support and to get me as far as possible from her. The last couple of times I tried to start casual conversation with W she comes back to me with sentences as "I am busy with the kids" or "I am having dinner" and nothing else. I dont understand all the times she says I didnt want this, I am going through a very harsh time, I cry every day and when we have a chance to sit down face to face is all blame and excuses to avoid a new fresh start. Early Aug it will be the first anniversary of DB, I am much better and using my GAL activities to fuel my inner strength but I dont know what to do anymore.

Good job on the GAL! However, 2x4 time. It sounds like you allowed your feelings to dictate your actions. "I was down, and I acted down." One of the truths I learned in my sitch? Actions dictate feelings! So force yourself to NOT act down and low-and-behold, your feelings will follow suit!

AND FOR PETE'S SAKE STOP INITIATING CONVERSATION WITH HER! One of the first DB principles is to remove all pressure and pursuit. To not follow her her around and beg for attention. To be the one to END conversations, not the one to start them. When you are around her you act upbeat, happy, pleased. You do not start conversation. When she does, you listen and validate. And the be the busy one! "I have to go take care of XYZ..." then to take care of XYZ!

Stop begging for crumbs!

What do you all mean by stop fighting for your M? Should I live a life where my R side is frozen? I know I have to leave her alone. It's been a full year and her feet are planted on the very same spot. I am tired and lonely, I go to bed every night to our marital bed alone and I force myself to keep a single happy man state of mind. The coldness she uses to speak about D... it blows my mind. The other day she told me we had S6 by accident as a young couple and S1 when she was in a bubble to make our R work no matter what, but we have never had intimacy. If I try to talk to her about how we both need to work on this, she feels like I am blaming her and not accepting I was the sole cause of the failure of our M. Then there are things like, I cannot understand you say DB hurt you when our R was dead long ago and not much changed when I started closing doors to you and treating you as if we were formally S. At some point she even said making her be with me would be like forcing me to marry a woman I find cute but is totally unknown to me...

"What do you all mean by stop fighting for your M?" It means what you are doing. Get your L to move things forward with custody and alimony. It means to stop trying to save the MR, and start trying to save you. It means commanding respect! It mean start preparing for the worst (you can still hope for the best). Are yiou in IC? If not, get into IC! GAL, 180 (self-improve), and work on detachment, which you clearly are not doing a good job of!

"Should I live a life where my R side is frozen?" You should live where your R is OVER, because it is. It might start a new against someday, but for now you assume it is over.

"I know I have to leave her alone. It's been a full year and her feet are planted on the very same spot. I am tired and lonely, I go to bed every night to our marital bed alone and I force myself to keep a single happy man state of mind. The coldness she uses to speak about D... it blows my mind. The other day she told me we had S6 by accident as a young couple and S1 when she was in a bubble to make our R work no matter what, but we have never had intimacy." This is because you are DBING WITH EXPECTATIONS! Constantly GAL, to see if it works. 180ing, to see if it works. Acting detached, to see if it works. No one EVER, EVER DBs well with one eye over their shoulder. So stop looking for reactions and changes from her. GAL, 180, and detach....FOR YOURSELF

"If I try to talk to her about how we both need to work on this, she feels like I am blaming her and not accepting I was the sole cause of the failure of our M." STOP TALKING TO HER ABOUT THIS!! It makes you look pathetic, weak and unattractive. And it breaks one of the core DB principles: "DO NOT INITIATE R TALKS!"

"Then there are things like, I cannot understand you say DB hurt you when our R was dead long ago and not much changed when I started closing doors to you and treating you as if we were formally S. At some point she even said making her be with me would be like forcing me to marry a woman I find cute but is totally unknown to me..." BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS, and only half of what she does. My goodness, you are hanging on her every word. You cannot trust a thing that comes out of her mouth right now, and you certainly should not be going down the rabbit hole of trying to figure it out! This W is a WAS...she lost in Neverland. And you are trying to figure out what her words mean? You'd have more success chasing pots of gold at the end of rainbows. Stop putting energy into things that are cheeseless tunnels.

I guess I undergo these "conversations" because she always says if we are to ever R it will not be via Retrouvaille or anything similar but rather progressively by talking and then doing things together. I never thought we would spend this summer separated, I know I had issues and I am working to erase them, but I never thought the harm I caused her through my emotional inability and selfishness was so big to break our family forever. I continue to work on myself, one step at a time, I am now reading "The ways of the superior man" after having finished "His needs, her needs" and I last Saturday I beat my personal 10k best time at now 48 mins 50 secs.

More "she says". She says whatever is expedient to her at the time. She blames you. She tells you what you want to hear. She changes the rules of R. She tells you there is no chance to R. She says you guys need to talk and do things together. Then she refuses to talk and do things. DON'T YOU SEE?? Her words are MEANINGLESS. Stop attaching meaning to them.

"I know I had issues and I am working to erase them, but" Wow, that smacks of being dismissive. When you say "but" you undo everything you said before it. Do you really know you had issues? Are you really working to erase them? What are you doing? Because lots of LBS try to fix their issues just to get to R, and not permanently. This is why I say you work on 180s for YOU!! Not for her or the MR!! This is why IC is important. You need to cement your changes. Make them permanent, regardless of whether you R with her or not.

Human mind is wicked, all I can think of is those great moments we have lived together and her mind is focused on every discussion, every time she felt ignored or rejected... I admitted to her I probably have a pink view of our R but I know I wasnt happy either and I want something really different with her and she is the most valuable thing I had in my life. I am learning so much from my books, I started listening to women actively and I have identified a list of frustrations I had in my R with W and I will never allow to happen again (as in I will speak out next time I am in a R about this).

Classic LBS and WAS stuff here. After BD the LBS romanticizes how awesome the MR. The WAS can't see anything but the negative. I see you pointing out your improvements, which is fine here. But please never point them out to her! If you do you ruin any chance of her giving you credit for it. You just really change for the better and over time she will notice it. She will be leery of it at first and won't trust it. But if you are consistent then she will trust it. But if you point it out to her she will never ever trust it. And think you are just behaving that way to get her back.

Again apologies for my long post, I need somewhere to write about this. W has told me I have wasted opportunities to come closer to her but I honestly cannot think when!! She has used the stupid legal terms in our S agreement to judge me as a man and reinforce her belief that I have not changed and cannot assume my blame. She will only talk to me about the separation agreement, is like a $%#^# flashback to munich october last year when all she wanted from me was the agreement signed to come to Spain. For all other matters I get cold answers as if she wanted to avoid me. I am not forcing her to be with a bad man or to go back to the R we had, why wont she see that?

"W has told me" STOP IT. Her words are meaningless!!

"She has used the stupid legal terms in our S agreement to judge me as a man and reinforce her belief that I have not changed and cannot assume my blame. " She is trying to manipulate you into getting what she wants. Don't fall for it!

"She will only talk to me about the separation agreement, is like a $%#^# flashback to munich october last year when all she wanted from me was the agreement signed to come to Spain. For all other matters I get cold answers as if she wanted to avoid me. I am not forcing her to be with a bad man or to go back to the R we had, why wont she see that?"

Again, stop focusing on her! Focus on you. Make your changes real and permanent....FOR YOU. This right here proves to me that you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if she is noticing. But for pete's sake just back off and leave her alone. Let her come to you. WASs are like cats, if you try to reach for them they will run away. But if you sit quietly and ignore them, eventually they will get curious and come to you on their terms. Stop reaching for her!!
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Life is freaking good, I have 2 amazing children with a woman who doesnt feel an inch of love for me. Talk about series in Netflix, life can be much more entertaining!

GROAN. I thought this was going to be about your GAL...then right back to her. Dude, if you are this focused on her all the time then you are smothering her. Pressuring and pursuing her right out of the door.

Can you please help me with this anxiety about the time it has been since she left home? What do I need to do? cut any talks with W? Thank you all for your time and help! please keep posting, I need the support from this board more than ever. Everyone talks to me about how the right woman will come in the future and I need to forget about W and get over my D.

Yes, stop initiating conversations! Learn what detachment is and looks like and start working on it. Up your GAL, but do not be down and depressed through it! Be upbeat, pleased and happy all the time! Work on those 180s for you, not her or anyone else! Get into IC if you are not. Learn how to see your faults through IC, and work on them. I do not think I would have changed if not for my IC!!!