Hi Pack, I hear the sadness in your post. I wish I knew something to say that would help you feel better. As long as you continue to have those "conversations" (as she calls them) you will continue to experience this depression. When I read your account of the R talks, it sounds the same each time. She wants you to listen while she verbally tears you down and says you have not changed. And, what does Paco do? He continues in a THREE HOUR encounter with a female who does not respect him as a man! Why? Why do you put yourself through this punishing ordeal? Why do you continue to go down this cheeseless tunnel?

I'm sorry you are so sad. I don't know how you could feel any other way, after the beating you take from your W. Divorce will not change anything, if you continue to show up whenever she summons you for a talk. Do you realize you don't have to prove anything to her? I've tried to tell you to stop that mindset where you attempt to show her how improved you've become. As far as I can tell, you still seem to think you should endure her insults and put-downs, while you show your validation skills.

I have a question I hope you will consider. Are you really in love with this woman? If so, why? Perhaps you loved the girl you thought you were marrying, IDK. But do you love her now? I wonder if you love the concept of marriage and family, more than actually loving the person she has become. You have talked a lot about not wanting to lose your family. Your children are your family, and you won't lose them.

(((Paco)))

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!