Moving On

[may22]

Can you ask for space? Could you say something like,

'I want you to make a free choice that you come to without pressure from me. I want to be able to do the same. For that to happen I need space. The best way of showing you care for me and respect me is to give me the space I need and the time I need to come to my own decisions.'

I don't doubt he cares for you May, but he cares for himself more - and what he wants is for you to 'stop the apathy' because it makes him feel bad. You're not punishing him, you are facing facts, believing what he says, granting him total autonomy and looking inside. These are healthy things. You have a right to them. When he refuses to let you have that, take a long while to think about why that might be. Who does it serve?

I *can* say this, Alison. Thank you for giving those words to me. I can say them and I believe he will respect them (sort of- at least he'd have to give them lip service and would back off if reminded). He wanted to talk to me this afternoon about the trip that we are having to cancel, says he knows I hate him right now but he needed to bounce an email off of me. I listened. He said talking about these trips and thinking about not doing them makes him want to run back into my arms, even though my arms are crossed in hatred to him right now. (I said they are not crossed in hatred but nothing else.) He said he didn't think that was a good enough reason, was it? Or was it a good reason? I said, you need to figure this out for yourself. He dropped it.

Then he said he has a lot to think about and process (he has an IC appointment this afternoon). He thanked me for being honest with him over the last few days and feels like I've given him more information about what each option (staying or leaving) would really look like, and that will be helpful in making his decision. I didn't say anything. He said he knows I didn't think he tried for the past 4 months because he didn't do it my way (total NC) but he he feels he *did* try and he knows how weak he was. And the fact that he couldn't do it, resist reaching back out to her, is also information for him, that he won't be able to do it if he tries again. I said (bad May, I know I shouldn't have said this) maybe you should talk to (MC). He said yes, I really want to do that, I'll schedule something today. (I had a whole load of things I WANTED to say but kept it buttoned other than that, so I give myself some props for at least partial restraint.) But overall that was my worst fail in this conversation, except maybe it would have been better to physically remove myself from the conversation and walk out. I left it at I'm needing to figure out what is best for me in this situation, and he said OK and left me alone. Now I'm kind of hiding in the office with the door closed so that I don't have to see him again before his IC appointment.

In any case... I think I could say this word-for-word and get the space I need. And his inability to let me manage my own process on my own-- or to manage his own process by himself-- is clearly benefiting him, not me. He is finally acknowledging to me that he is being selfish and has been selfish, too (though he wanted to me acknowledge that while he's been selfish this entire time, it hasn't been vindictive with an intent to hurt me. I said that didn't really matter so much, but OK. I can acknowledge it isn't vindictiveness.)

You aren't going to friend him back. He thinks he knows you. He will keep mashing the same buttons until the response changes. He knows he can hit the SSM button and the controlling button and the "I don't want to break up the family" button and they will work. He knows he can come to you for his conflicted feelings.

No MC until he's committed to the MR.

Frankly I think your H is manipulative and until you detach further it's going to be hard for you to avoid falling into these patterns.

U-- thank you also. This helps. I know you're right. He is being manipulative whether he is trying to actively manipulate the situation or just can because he knows me so well and needs me to engage for whatever his own reasons may be. I feel like my step away internally did somewhat start to destabilize Plan B, as Steve would say, for him and he's doing all he can to firm that back up and get the responses he wants from me so he can feel more secure in the power seat. I just need to keep my energy focused on myself and continue to hold to what is best for me. It is just hard to not let myself start to have hope again.

He uses the children and this notion of an intact “family” to control you; hold you in limbo via guilt. He knows it’s a sensitive issue of yours and he is manipulating it to the point of extreme emotional abuse. Like YOU are tearing apart the family by not allowing him to live a double life in the basement? Surrrrre.

HE lost the privilege of a family when he threw it in the trash and carried on a 3 year long affair that is still ongoing.
Family is valuable and to be cherished, not exploited to cake eat. Is he acting like a man who has learned this life lesson?

As for some inner work for you, why is it “keeping the family in tact” when it’s all a big lie and he lives having an affair in the same house? Do you value a mere presence more than the real thing? Did your FOO keep up appearances?
It’s not your job to fix his self detonation. Maybe something to discuss in IC.

HaWho, I need to keep repeating this-- I'm not the one making these choices, he already did, and I don't need to convince him of why I'm justified in not wanting to be his friend for the sake of the girls. That is my own decision and I don't owe him anything. Going forward I'm making all my decisions in the best interests of my children and myself. Not him. And no, he is not acting like a man who has learned his life lesson. (Honestly I don't even know what that looks like. Or if he is capable of it.)

And yes, I have always been taught to put a smile on my face and make the best of things. I did not air dirty laundry. My FOO was actually very happy and strong, but my mom totally was the boss and my dad was and is pretty easygoing. H's family was kind of the opposite and I think this is part of our problem. Also, I have never, ever considered D to be an option-- I always believed that M was for life. Growing up, none of my friends' parents were Ded, only one member of my extended family (which was awful to watch), my parents had one couple friend from college who got Ded and they always talked about how terrible it was for their son. And H was actually in much the same position. So this is all just taking me a lot to acknowledge that D can be a real choice for me. I don't value a mere presence more than the real thing, for sure... and the past four months have taught me that as I got more and more worried that I was settling if he wasn't ever going to address the A. I guess I've been holding onto hope that the real thing was still possible, that it was worth it to TRY.

Sage... I have so much to say to you! Sending giant hugs. So much of what you say resonates 100% with me-- the things your H has said, your fundamental optimism, the worth-it-to-give-it-our-best-shot. Ugh. Who needs these men anyway. I'll post more on your thread but I'm so with you on this.

For me, though, I really did feel like I basically got to this point back in January/February, being OK with a D and being able to realize it was all out of my control. I do think that was part of H's decision back then too, I felt that swinging pursuer-distancer dynamic then and I feel it again right now. I think last time, though, I never fully believed him when he was saying how he felt about AP, his worries that he could never love me like that again-- I felt like OK, I get it, of course you don't have those feelings for me because another person is in the way. Once you let her go we can build M2.0, we have all the ingredients for an incredible M, way better than before. We just have to do the work.

Now... I'm feeling less optimism. Believing what he is telling me is true is much more devastating- that he truly is in love with another woman- than being able to dismiss it as fantasy. It still may be fantasy, but it isn't to him, and he let me down as his W in an enormous and maybe irreparable way. And I can't control him or make him want to want M2.0 with me. I can only control me. So planning on how I will be OK no matter what is the work I need to do now... just hard and I'm trying soooooo hard not to let myself get distracted by his manipulations, as nice-feeling as it would be to give into them.