Notice how fast he dropped the ‘Don’t you know how much I still love you?’ facade once you threatened him with consequences? That’s the emotional abuse right there.
Fighting you for the house would financially and emotionally devastate not only you, but your children. And probably him as well. He knows this. And he would do it without a second thought to punish you for finally standing up for yourself? May, I don’t think this man loves you. He’s using you. Allison is right, he’s trying to frighten you to shut you up.
Your response should be to draw up your spine, look him dead in the eye, and calmly say “then we’ll fight for the house”. Then turn and walk away. He’ll bully you only as much as you allow it.
You could try telling him that you won’t discuss anything further until you’ve gotten legal advice. He’ll probably scream and stomp his feet about it, or if that’s not his style, try to make you feel guilty for it. Oh well, that’s his opinion.
You’re so close to making the next step, May. I mentioned on Hope’s thread about acceptance being the first step towards healing. You’re nearly there.
I know this all seems like it’s happening so fast - just last week you were imagining a very different future. Go at your own pace, but be prepared. I hate to say it, but you can’t trust your husband.
I'm about to go to bed May, but I just checked in here to see if you were okay. I know I can be cold and too harsh in my posts sometimes, and that I have caused you some pain doing that before. Just know that this crazy lady in the UK with her tea-cup in bed is utterly disgusted by your H and very admiring of how you are handling yourself. And I only know this stuff because I had it drummed into me - HARD and OFTEN - both here and by my IC.
Notice how fast he dropped the ‘Don’t you know how much I still love you?’ facade once you threatened him with consequences? That’s the emotional abuse right there.
Fighting you for the house would financially and emotionally devastate not only you, but your children. And probably him as well. He knows this. And he would do it without a second thought to punish you for finally standing up for yourself? May, I don’t think this man loves you. He’s using you. Allison is right, he’s trying to frighten you to shut you up.
He wouldn't do it. I know these are empty threats. He's just saying it to frighten me-- I absolutely agree that he is being manipulative and trying to use that to make me back down about wanting him to leave. I can't say that throughout all of this I haven't been guilty of the exact same thing-- trying to control him through threats. I have worked on this, though, and am really trying to be sure what I am perceiving as my boundaries are truly that and not meant to force a certain response from him. I know I need to sit in my own space and focus on me and what I can control, and let go of what I can't.
I think this is a boundaries issue too, an unhealthy dynamic that used to be far, far more present in our R and is now much less present. We used to always need the other person to agree and would argue over the dumbest things just to be right. We also both know how to push the other's buttons better than anyone in the world. I know exactly what i can say in any situation to infuriate him, and he can do the same. We used to fight all the time two, three, four years ago like this. If I'd been BDed when we were in that space, we'd have been done that very night.
The irony is that we've done a lot of work together and improved the relationship between the two of us so much in the past six months or so. I know he has been trying and working on himself in these areas, and I have seen a lot of improvements in how he can take responsibility for (small) things, avoid the temptation to lash out, to stop being an a-hole. In any case, I don't actually believe for a minute he would go there. The problem is, he thinks the same thing of me-- he doesn't believe I'll actually follow through on any of this. The stress around all of this is bringing out the worst in both of us.
I don't want this to come across like I'm defending him-- I'm not. He is being manipulative, and just because I've been guilty of the same thing doesn't make it OK. Also, the more I think about it, infidelity in and of itself constitutes emotional abuse. And he doesn't have the strength or willpower or character or whatever is necessary to really look at himself, his own behavior, his own choices, and make a decision-- even if that decision is to leave me. I felt that he was moving in that direction, had made a decision, was starting to open up and talk about his own actions and his concerns about being able to forgive himself for what he had done to me. Then he chickened out and ran back to AP.
The adult thing to do is to make that call and own it, not drag around a wife on one side and an AP on the other for all this time and feel sorry for yourself and manipulate the situation such that it doesn't have to be his decision. (Can you tell I've been hanging out with chump lady??)
As a side note, I said to him the other day, why are you OK with AP telling you she doesn't ever want to speak with you again if you choose the M because it will be too painful for her, but it isn't OK for me to say the same thing-- with the added bonus of I actually DO need to see you, and potentially with her, forever since we are bound by these children? At first he said, oh, interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. Then he said, (straight faced) every time she talks to me she falls back in love with me. I don't think that is the case for you. (no, it is not.) And finally he said, I argue with her about that too. I don't understand why if you love someone you would want to cut them out of your lives. He's doing this to her too. Delusional and wrong. He just re-set the hook with her. I need to drop the line on my side.
Originally Posted by scout12
Your response should be to draw up your spine, look him dead in the eye, and calmly say “then we’ll fight for the house”. Then turn and walk away. He’ll bully you only as much as you allow it.
This is basically what happened. I said, we don't need to discuss this any further. You know where I stand on this.
He came to me and apologized, said when we talk he says things he doesn't necessarily mean to counter me. He asked if we could take a break for a few days, maybe through the weekend, from talking about this. I said that was fine, I don't want to discuss it with him any more anyway. He knows where i stand. UGH this would be easier if we weren't in the house together 24-7. At least the last time around I was at work all day long, not WFH and juggling zoom calls and distance learning and meals together.
Originally Posted by scout12
I know this all seems like it’s happening so fast - just last week you were imagining a very different future. Go at your own pace, but be prepared. I hate to say it, but you can’t trust your husband.
I think the whiplash where we were a week ago-- or I guess where I thought we were a week ago-- is just really difficult for me to handle.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I'm about to go to bed May, but I just checked in here to see if you were okay. I know I can be cold and too harsh in my posts sometimes, and that I have caused you some pain doing that before. Just know that this crazy lady in the UK with her tea-cup in bed is utterly disgusted by your H and very admiring of how you are handling yourself. And I only know this stuff because I had it drummed into me - HARD and OFTEN - both here and by my IC.
Thanks Alison-- I'm doing better today than yesterday and a lot of that is because of your words. I also so admire you and your strength in how you are dealing with your own situation. I find it soooooo interesting how we are coming at things from such different angles and I think because of that-- even though I fight against it sometimes-- your advice is really helping me to find balance. It is exactly what I need. Thank you... I hope you get a good night's sleep!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I’m just getting all caught up here. I’m so sorry about this sudden turn. I can imagine what a huge let down that must feel like.
I’m obviously terrible at all of this and I don’t even feel like I have a leg to stand on to advise anyone here, but I do agree with the majority here that the hard, cold LRT approach is needed for your sitch. I say that because I genuinely think it might get you what you want.
I think you have continued to handle all of this very smartly and you’ve been so strong. When things go haywire, those are the times to double down on those traits. I suspect that if you take the hard line with your H and stick to it, it will serve you well.
Just wanted to drop in and let you know I’m here with you!
Thanks, Hope. I really appreciate your words-- they mean a lot. I don't feel strong or smart from where I sit. I feel I have screwed up a lot. It is a lot to process right now, with everything else going on in the world too.
H took the kids out of the house for a hike this afternoon, so I have a little time and space to myself. It has been nice. I realized today that I am *still* trying to control him with my own behaviors in little ways. Last night I went and laid on the bed with my computer instead of on the regular couch where we always sit after the kids go to bed to work on my financial spreadsheets, in my mind so that I had a little more privacy, but really because I knew it would make him come talk to me. Ask him a logistical question with a little more edge than is needed because I'm angry and sad and want to be sure he doesn't forget that and then really monitor to see if it landed. None of this is purposeful, but all the talk about boundaries and control on this thread have really opened up my eyes to my own dysfunctional behaviors, and just how fully attached I am right now. It also makes me wonder how much of why I'm standing is because I'm angry at him for forcing this story into our lives and making me be a divorced 45-year-old woman whose husband had a stupid cliche affair with a 34 year old, or because I really want to work things out with him for my kids or whatever. Ugh.
My plan for the next few days is to be kind to myself, spend time thinking about me and what my needs are at this time. Not engage in any conversations about the R or A or the future or anything (unless he say's he's leaving, in which case I will say terrific! Let me help. What shall we tell the children?). Just focus on myself, detaching, ensuring that none of my words or behaviors are attempting to influence him in any way. Do my best to be neutral while I get to little better mental place so that I can figure out my next steps from more solid footing.
Thanks to all of you guys for helping me through this. I agree, cold cold LRT (or maybe the after-the-LRT) approach is the best way forward. I just need to figure out how I can accomplish that while being a good mom to my children, living my values, and ensuring anything I need for that space is within my control. I just re-read the sections of DR. (Man, MWD is so chirpy and positive. Not really jibing with me at the moment!)
xoxo
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I agree, cold cold LRT (or maybe the after-the-LRT) approach is the best way forward. I just need to figure out how I can accomplish that while being a good mom to my children, living my values, and ensuring anything I need for that space is within my control. I just re-read the sections of DR. (Man, MWD is so chirpy and positive. Not really jibing with me at the moment!
Ha! That last part made me laugh; I too find her tone to be a bit chipper for a lot of the moments when I go back to read DR.
Also what is the after-the-LRT because I suspect that is what I need to be doing?!
I realized today that I am *still* trying to control him with my own behaviors in little ways. Last night I went and laid on the bed with my computer instead of on the regular couch where we always sit after the kids go to bed to work on my financial spreadsheets, in my mind so that I had a little more privacy, but really because I knew it would make him come talk to me. Ask him a logistical question with a little more edge than is needed because I'm angry and sad and want to be sure he doesn't forget that and then really monitor to see if it landed. None of this is purposeful, but all the talk about boundaries and control on this thread have really opened up my eyes to my own dysfunctional behaviors, and just how fully attached I am right now. It also makes me wonder how much of why I'm standing is because I'm angry at him for forcing this story into our lives and making me be a divorced 45-year-old woman whose husband had a stupid cliche affair with a 34 year old, or because I really want to work things out with him for my kids or whatever. Ugh.
This is so familiar to me, May. You are so wise and brave in going there, and noticing it - just sitting with it for now. I recognise this, and I know it's still in my marriage on my part. I don't know if I even want to bother piecing right now (I am asking myself the same questions about my motivations as you are) but first order of business seems to be to work on these manipulative behaviours (I am talking about me, not you) so that I can connect with myself - what I really think and what I want - rather than the endless task of trying to extract some desired behaviour / emotion / words from my husband.
I think you are on the right track and that you'll be fine. You're not spinning and crashing - your husband is, and it only feels like you are because you're hooked in to him. When you unhook, it will be painful and there will be grief and uncertainty, but also clarity, and an ability to tend to your own feelings.
As a side note, I said to him the other day, why are you OK with AP telling you she doesn't ever want to speak with you again if you choose the M because it will be too painful for her, but it isn't OK for me to say the same thing-- with the added bonus of I actually DO need to see you, and potentially with her, forever since we are bound by these children? At first he said, oh, interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. Then he said, (straight faced) every time she talks to me she falls back in love with me. I don't think that is the case for you. (no, it is not.) And finally he said, I argue with her about that too. I don't understand why if you love someone you would want to cut them out of your lives. He's doing this to her too. Delusional and wrong. He just re-set the hook with her. I need to drop the line on my side.
I dont know if this is particularly relevant, but AP's comments "IF you choose the M.." - did he not already convey to her back in Feb that he DID choose the M? Why has she come back giving him an ultimatum now, knowing that he had already made his choice? I know he wasnt ready to provide details to you of how it ended in Feb, and I'm wondering how it ended and what was said (as I'm sure you have many times). Sorry May if this isnt helpful or relevant right now, but did he give her the same "can you give me 6 months to work on my M and if it doesnt you'll be there for me" type thing?
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Ugh may, what a total, total mess. I'm so sorry you're here after all the work you've put into rebuilding the M. He was clearly one foot out the door the whole time, even if it looked like he was making an effort. His behaviour is disgusting. Well, it has been all along, but to give you hope and then smash it again, just horrible. Have a hug. Be strong.
