I actually feel I am ready to forgive - as a generality: tho suspect [as in my autumn leaves analogy], forgiveness-to-the-point-of-no-anger-anywhere may be a long time coming. But maybe it isnt true forgiveness so long as there is any drop of anger left? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FEELINGS, however DO still have to be worked through-I remember being puzzled when I made up my mind to forgive, but yet I still felt angry, betrayed, hurt--etc.
I drew on somone else's wisdom to help me-because I was taught that when you forgave someone-the feelings automatically went away, and they weren't doing that.
I STILL had to work through my feelings-when I forgave, I just committed not to bring it up-released the offending party to the LORD to handle, because HE will make sure they "reap what they have sown".
You see, although they might ask the LORD for forgiveness, and He DOES forgive when they ask, the NATURAL consequences of the actions are not stopped-they STILL have to experience "reaping what they have sown." Because, whatever a person does, good or bad-it ALWAYS comes back-and not always in the same form it has gone out-most of the time it is worse.
I have observed my husband reap hard what he has sown-and that has actually lasted all this time, plus the fact he has had to LIVE with what he has done to our marriage--I, on the other hand, have not. Yes, everything he did affected me, but I didn't do what he has done, and don't have to live with the betrayal of self and marriage vows.
I learned to separate the behavior from the person-having never learned that before in my life.
No, I don't and won't ever feel that I did anything so bad I DESERVED this-what I had to look at and eventually reality hit me from both sides during my journey-was the fact that I had turned a "blind" eye to most things in our marriage, and he took advantage of that--I had MORE invested than he did, when the balance should have been more equal.
I remember my husband saying that I had "always done what I was supposed to do." And post-journey-I realized this to be true. Wasn't a bad thing, though-he never really had to worry about me-and that was PART of the problem-he'd started taking me for granted, and when I found out about OW, for the first time in 15 years, he experienced FEAR-because NOW he had crossed the line that should NEVER have been crossed-and he had to face that he might actually LOSE ME.
Everything he had ever done to me in that 15 years flashed before his eyes-I remember him speaking of it and apologizing over and over. But those things had been forgiven a long time ago and weren't worth re-hashing--this I knew, but I listened anyway.
Most people probably won't have the insight & guidance you have had, HB, when speaking directly with your H about this. For myself, I know if I had let all my blame & anger show at the beginning when it was very raw, there would be no way back. This is why it is so important to me, to make the decision to never throw destructive emotion at either of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You couldn't anyway, it wouldn't change a thing-your husband HAS to know how you felt about what he did, and that is different from "throwing destructive emotion".
It is very, very hard to separate the actions from the person-OW had NOTHING to do with you, but yet you were extremely hurt, and that is understandable. You can think all you want to, but it is what you DO that will impact the situation. And the words spoken must be chosen carefully, because two things in this life cannot be taken back:
A moment in Time A spoken word
I forget who told me that, but it is true-and I know, during this, there have been many times I have had to bite my tongue, and if I HAD to speak, my words were chosen carefully-because to lose control, totally, could mean the end-and I would have brought that upon myself.
The Lord protected me while I was ignorant, but when my eyes were opened, it fell to ME to be careful-that's why I gave ALL control to Him-but it still took me time to be able to do that. And He has continued to direct my steps since then. And will always do so for the rest of my life.
I have been extremely fortunate that He sent me help-no, make that BLESSED. He sent me help because I was obedient to Him in all things. People often think that serving the Lord is "boring" "no fun" and we are uptight, judgemental people. That thinking comes from dealing with people that have CHOSEN to be that way.
As I have grown in my walk, I have realized that the Lord DOES have a sense of humor-I have experienced it as I've grown closer to Him-and he doesn't want us to walk in condemnation of ourselves-that does NOT mean we can "sit on the fence" and serve both Him and the Devil.
It simply means we are to do the best we can to walk in His light, serving Him to the best of our ability, making an effort to stay out of sin-we know right from wrong-being willing to give ALL control to Him, so He can help us.
In short, we must develop a relationship with the Lord, not just pay lip-service, and do good works. We must have faith, and belief in Him, and be willing to follow in His steps.
It has been said, and the bible says this, that the Lord's people are a "peculiar" people, and I find that to be true. I am a humble person, taught to love and help others, and my ACTIONS speak louder than anything I could ever say, and somehow, people actually DO see Him in me. There is something different about me, and it has been remarked upon before-but I didn't understand what they were talking about until my own understanding came about.
And I have seen this same thing in other people.
I, myself, have continued to be obedient to Him in all ways, all things, and I don't find it "boring" at all.
He has brought me through SO much, and brought me to the level where I now currently stand.
Jesus never said we would have it easy down here, but He DID say HE would be WITH us during our trials, and He would never leave us. He will help, but we must ask-if we ask not, we have not.
I would not have made it through, if the Lord hadn't been with me this whole time.
I think I got carried away. But the Lord is SO good to me.
This is concerning Acceptance
My husband started into Acceptance back in March-breaking the stage of Withdrawal. I was told very little, but he did confirm that his MLC started in October of 1999.
After I forgave him, he did NOT want to discuss it anymore, and left me very hurt and confused. I managed to get through the hurt and confusion and kept going.
I would figure most men or women going into the Acceptance, stage, will go into it in "steps". At least my husband did.
From a spiritual point of view, it was a battle he had to fight on his own-I could only stand by and watch him.
He made a final split-similar to the one I had seen 6 months before on his exit from the tunnel with the same-aged "children" (a 4 year old and a 15 year old)I had seen then.
Sometimes, he'd start his day as the "4 year old" and end it as the "15 year old"-my son was seeing the SAME personas I saw.
Even though he was into Acceptance, he STILL put me through a great deal of stuff-and there were things he had to work out on his own. The temptation was placed before him to return to things as they once were when he was in "Replay", and thank God he didn't return. I was there when things were placed before him, but I had my instructions not to interfere and keep my mouth shut no matter what I saw and heard-this went on for eight days, and I witnessed alot of things during that time, in "speed-dial" fashion.
Things began to go much better after that eight-day period, but I was still puzzled from time to time-as he STILL went back and forth briefly through differing stages in the coming weeks--except "Denial" and "Replay".
In describing how this stage works, it is like "shutting" or "closing" doors after brief revisits with each stage except "Denial" with no going backwards into what was going on before-the temptation is simply there, but not taken. And, like the other stages it is slow-going, and severely tries the patience of the sane spouse that is trying to keep things leveled out.
And ONCE each stage is "revisited" and the door is closed-they can NEVER return to what once was.
I saw mine emerge totally from MLC itself around two weeks ago, but am still observing changes as they keep occurring.
Some of his "old" personality is there, and I feel "awake" in a way I never was before, but there is some new changes there, too.
Sometimes, my frustration is evident, and I want things I know I cannot have, as I know I cannot change him, but I'm attempting to accept the things I cannot change, knowing I must keep going on, being here if he needs me.
I also realize this has changed ME in a way I haven't ever been before-and my old wounds have healed, and I won't ever go back to what I was once before.
Only time will tell how it goes now. I'm still being guided by the Lord in how to deal with new developments as they arise.
Now, whether he comes and speaks to me of this a final time, I won't know unless the time comes-but the rules in this game are still the same: the answers will come from HIM and not ME-and as willing as I am to help him, he must help himself, regardless if I'm allowed to help or not.
But I know, deep within my heart, I cannot help him if he doesn't allow me to.
Take care.
I do know he's NOT exactly the same person I once knew---that much is evident. But there is enough of the old for him to be very familiar to me. And I must adjust once again for a final time.
More Q & A's from LSL concerning Acceptance
LSL,
Look backward in this thread most of these questions have already been answered-look at page 3 and 4-I describe Acceptance in those posts.
When an MLCer enters ACCEPTANCE is he/she completely freed from all the other stages? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. Once they enter the final stage of Acceptance-the "doors" are closed, forever, and they can NEVER return to what was.
Are all those other connections severed so that it is a clean break and then the Acceptance begins? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acceptance is entered in stages, LSL, as I have explained elsewhere on this thread-severing those connections forever is but a part of this. But, yes, once there is a clean break-the final stage of Acceptance is entered-and there is NO going back to what once was. The changes that are demanded from a MLC'er continue to take shape and form.
Can we recognize this entering into acceptance, or only in hind-sight? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends upon how spiritually "open" you are-some things will be recognized physically-they become more peaceful and relaxed and voice their acceptance of things.
Some things are shown in a spiritual manner-we were unable to rebond spiritually UNTIL he passed through the final temptations and the "doors" were closed forever to him-this was a battle I was allowed to witness as it took EIGHT days to finish, and I could say NOTHING, but I watched-it was necessary for me to be there as my presence along with the Lord's; helped him to overcome this final battle-the Lord knew what He was doing when He placed me with him-we were out on the road when it occurred. So I did know when he entered the final stage of Acceptance.
You mention thes "splits" - how does this work - what does it look like? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That again, is described on page 3, LSL. What happens, happens as they are on their way out of the tunnel.
Their personality "disintegrates" into several people-it is kind of like a psychiatric disease-schizophrenia, Three Faces of Eve...etc.
You will see many people within, personalities you have NEVER seen before-and you will recognize YOURSELF in some of them-as normally, we pick and choose how we are "packaged"-and did this a long time ago, when we became adults-or so we thought we did.
Each personality comes forward to be seen and tested-plus there are children who are mixed up within, too-the products of childhood wounds, second adolescence, etc.
You never know who you are going to see at any given moment, and it is hard to keep up with, but the bottom line is you MUST accept what you see-no matter who is showing.
You will see "flashes" of the OLD, "flashes" of the "new", and it is an internal struggle.
The best way to react is to accept this split and be patient-no matter who you see.
For it is at this time they will choose what they will keep and what they will throw away-and come through as mature adults for the FIRST time in their lives.
IF this doesn't complete-they WILL recycle-I saw it happen with my husband-description, page 3.
Normally they should complete this internal battle, face their final fears, bottom out and come on out of the tunnel-beginning the start into the stages of Acceptance.
My husband took a detour-bouncing into Withdrawal instead-description page 3.
Do you see these children chronologically until all issues from these ages are resolved? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not necessarily, LSL-I only saw TWO children-one was 3 or 4 and one was 15.
His actions showed me the children-and I thought I was going crazy until our son said the SAME thing. We just kept being patient with the children-and YES, they would show up on his job. LOL
The 4 year old liked peanut butter on his pancakes. And was impatient, hustling and rushing-practically dragging whoever was with him along-not sure what he was in so much of a hurry for, I just ran with him, and so did our son. LOL
The 15 year was totally laid back, in no hurry- complained constantly, never happy with ANYTHING-possessed a HUGE appetite for sex, and checked me out constantly-I looked the part of a teen-ager and he was definitely attracted to me, sexually. But he also talked a great deal more to me, too, he was MORE open than I had ever seen him-and all that was packaged in the 15 year old.
I can NOT tell you what he managed to work out, other than job, family, and accepting himself-the other things I have NOT been shown-it is NOT for me to know-if the Lord wants me to know, He will have my husband tell me, and that may be the final key to getting totally out of this-and shutting the door on my end of it.
I am having some vague stirrings about that, and yes, there are some things I know, but-I cannot tell anything I know...yet. I cannot have Satan dabbling in this ANYMORE-and that has happened before when I didn't keep my mouth shut.
I can talk about the past all I want to, as it is set in stone-but what's coming, I cannot until it completes.
How do you know when this splitting is done? (is it a hind-sight?) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends again on your spiritual perception-his reintegration was slow, but steady. You will see him "come back together" into a changed, more mature, person-the immature traits you knew before his entrance into the tunnel will be gone, burned out of him.
The changes will continue, and you will see more and more as time goes on-he must be let go totally this final time to allow his changes to finish-he will come out of the storm during this final stage of Acceptance, and while he is still changing, but the changes will complete themselves-in time AFTER the exit from the MLC storm. He will take care of any unfinished business during this time-relationship repair, asking for forgiveness, finally "getting" the damage he has done-or he should, to close this out completely.
That last part was what the Lord has given me to say-I don't exactly have that final experience-I'm only as far as him coming out of the storm, and he is still in the "changing" department, completing his changes.
May 19, 2010 As an added note, I don't think I realized just what a busy lady I'd been back at that time....I do realize that I got VERY longwinded writing these posts.
Is ok, though, will make for some interesting reading I would think. Incidentally, the final sermon on Acceptance explained more of what a person could see when and if the MLC'er gets that far.
People's comprehension/understanding will not ALL come together at the same time, each person sometimes has to read, re-read and maybe read some more, and ask a thousand questions before they "get" what they have to get.
Please be patient with people that take various amounts of time to get what they need to do or even fight and argue about what they are having to learn...always remember where you came from, and remember that someone was patient with YOU, when YOU were in that same place.
Having compassion can go a long way toward helping someone that is deep within their misery; it is heartbreaking to see someone that has just had the bomb dropped on them...and knowing you were there once, too.
I always tried to NEVER forget where I came from, I answered many questions over and over and over and over until I saw the "lightbulb" come on, and they got it...then, you know, there were ALWAYS MORE questions..there always is, as not only the initial "getting it" has to be done, but LEARNING the aspects and many other things of this crisis need to be done as well on an ongoing basis.
We that have gone before are the guides that leave that trail of "breadcrumbs"..bits of information that helped in each of our individual situations. Although, the circumstances of the crisis may be similar, no two people are the same, nor will their crisis be the same either.
Something to remember and oft repeated again and again and again.
Always remember, too, that each person's journey, whether the marriage comes through or not, is ALSO different, as we each have our own issues, baggage, and wounds that must be healed within us. These are brought out during the spouse's MLC, and sometimes brought out once AGAIN when/if the LBS goes through that same change themselves, triggered by the spouse's MLC.
Only when we come through successfully, whether with or without our marriage, will we be equipped to experience life at its fullest.
I came through his MLC WITH my marriage, but if my journey hadn't been taken to wholeness, things could have just as easily turned the other way, losing my marriage anyway, mainly because the "old" me wasn't going to work. Regardless, and even though I completed the journey, this was ALWAYS a possibility I STILL had to face throughout this crisis, as my husband held the decision of whether or not he would return to our marriage and keep it. Believe it or not, when going through my transition, I held the SAME decision within my hands, and decided to keep what I had.
Each individual person has that SAME power, regardless of how powerless you may THINK you are.
Those of you who are hurting now: Work through your anger, misery, hurt. Accept it, forgive the person that wronged you, forgive yourself for being a human being; pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go on into the healing process...in time, you'll need to use that experience to help others come through what you've already been through.
Believe me, you can reach the place I stand in now.
I look back over 8 years now since I went through the misery of his MLC, and from where I stand now, I can tell you, it was worth EVERYTHING I went through. I walked the journey of a lifetime, becoming a better person than I was before through the lessons I learned. I didn't become perfect(I only wish, LOL), but I became more confident, more settled, more tolerant, more loving, more sensitive than I had ever been.
Growing is always a good thing, attitude is the most important thing, as it doesn't matter WHAT you face, it is the ATTITUDE you have while within. Each one of us learns to endure, learn what we need to learn, and come out better than we were before.
You're going to be ALL right, no matter what happens, and there will come a time when you will SEE that with a certainty...regardless of what happens or doesn't happen. Marriage or no Marriage, you'll be FINE..and a success for having GROWN through this opportunity that is also called your Spouse's MLC.
