a new normal

[AlisonUK]

May - I am so sorry this has happened. In your earlier post, when you said your H had been thinking about why he'd done what he'd done, I thought that was such a good sign - that he was looking inwards instead of taking the easy answer and blaming you. This must be such a blow.

I don't know what to advise, other than I don't think you can repair your marriage while there's another person in it, and I don't think your H is really ready to remove the OW from his life. Whether you can wait, or are willing to wait, is perhaps something that isn't clear to you right now.

I was so angry when he asked if you'd wait six months while he went and tried to have a relationship with her. I know he admitted it was a crazy thing to ask, but even the fact that he'd disrespect you like that is astonishing to me.

Take care.

[unchien]

may ~ I haven't checked in for awhile. So sorry to hear about this update.

Anyway, complete re-run of conversations we had in January. I asked what was different in his three reasons for ending the A from before. he said nothing... well, maybe she would be OK not having any children, because she wanted to be with him so badly she would be willing to give that up (I asked if they talked about this recently and he said no, it was from back before he ended it). Also, that he had been trying with me for the past five months and he still was in love with her. He also said the last couple of weeks he's felt uncomfortable about sex with me. I said I didn't consider what we had been doing for the last five months really trying... we barely talked about our R or the A until just a couple of weeks ago, and we haven't been seeing the MC. Those are two big, important parts of actually working on our R and seeing if it could work. We had major issues that needed to be dealt with and being together but not dealing with them was not actually "trying" in my book. But whatever.

He brought up several different times just how badly he'd screwed up, that he had hurt and betrayed me, that he didn't see how that was fixable, that I could forgive him or he could forgive himself. Before he went to sleep (in our bed... I'm sitting up here at 3 am) he asked if we could continue the conversation tomorrow. he talked a lot again about me being his best friend, him needing to talk to his best friend about this. He feels I've dismissed his feelings for AP and been like, just don't talk to her for awhile and you'll get over her, and that he doesn't know that he ever will/can. He asked me how this happened, how he could have started a two (now a two and a half) year affair. All the same things he was talking about last week... and now colored by the fact that they were back in contact at this point and he is again in total limerence, exacerbated by the fact that she slept with someone else and also that he might lose her forever.

It sounds like he's spinning (limerence?) from this renewed contact and you are going to hear him regurgitate the same garbage from 5 months ago. The more you can be completely detached *lovingly* (important) the better. "I'm sure these are hard feelings for you to sort out" followed by a non-passive-aggressive smile or something like that (IDK). Maybe he'll cycle out of it after awhile (?)

I vote that you cut off R talks when he brings this up. He'll do his whole schtick about how you need to truly understand his feelings for her blah blah blah. Maybe a simple: "I understand you have some feelings to sort out on your own".

Of course that is fuel for him to suggest you are cold, distant, etc. Ignore it. You can't control his perceptions. You are his W, not his sounding board to resolve his feelings about his AP. You already tried that once.

[AlisonUK]

I think that's very good advice, May. I think you already had a boundary that you weren't going to hear about his feelings for the AP. He's told you about his actions - what you make of them are up to you, but I'd consider those acts of infidelity in this situation. You have the information you need, and as much time as you want to digest and act on it. I think what is most important now is that you protect yourself, and in this situation it means you don't listen to any more of his limerent whining about his mistress.

[Sage4]

I am so sorry you are back to this place again, May.

However, there are a few things that stand out to me, some of which have been mentioned by previous posters. Firstly, although it feels like you are back in the same place you were in January, I am not sure that your H is in the same place as he was then. OW has done you a service by forcing his hand to a certain degree. Although you can't control her, or him, it is clear that she is putting him in a place of an ultimatum. And you have been clear about your boundaries surrounding him leaving the house. So it's on him and you can't be blamed for the fallout of his decision, either way.

What other boundaries could you put up and still maintain the hard work you have put into the R for the past five months? What do you need to survive this right now? I agree with everyone else that you absolutely should not be his BFF or sounding board for the purpose of sorting through his emotional quagmire. And asking you for 6 months is absolutely ridiculous, but illuminates the fact that he is indeed in a between a rock and a hard spot and only he can save himself (though he wants you to).

Step out of his way as much as you possibly can. This is on him, it is not your fault and you can't save him.

(((((May)))))

[scout12]

Oh man, this hurt to read. And yet, it's not unexpected.

May, what do you think about taking yourself out of the equation for a bit? Not sure what the covid restrictions are like there, but can you go stay with family or friends or even a hotel for a week or two? Take the kids, don't take the kids -- whatever works for you.

I cannot believe the sheer disrespect of him asking you to give him a six-month hall pass. And then to expect you to be waiting, pining for him in case it doesn't work out?! And guilting you for dismissing his feelings about AP?!? WTActualF. You're his WIFE. What does he think marriage vows ARE? It makes my skin crawl. It's completely craven.

I do err on the side of scorched earth in these situations, as you know, so feel free to disregard anything I say.

I know it's complicated, it's hard, kids are involved, sunk costs, you love him -- girl, ask yourself honestly. Is this love, to you? Is this acceptable, to you? Love is commitment, it's showing up. That's all it is. It's not happiness, it's not lust, it's not anything else. Feelings fade. Love is a choice. He's choosing to love someone else.

We love you and we're here for you.

[may22]

Thanks, you guys.

IW, thanks for checking in... I always really appreciate your comments on other's posts. I think the time and waiting not to make a decision out of emotion is important. I don't know that I can keep standing at the moment, though. I'm feeling like the situation is hopeless and time to get out.

U, good to hear from you too...totally spinning limerence. It is CRAZY to watch now that he's been more sane for awhile how desperate and emotional he is right now. So weird that just two weeks ago we had our long transparency talk and he seemed so much different in how he talked about her and she dropped her sleeping with someone bomb. (But it isn't too late for him! She still loves him so much!) The passion and urgency were gone, he talked about his feelings in the past tense, he talked about how he didn't think it would work out between them anyway. Now all back with a vengeance. And saying he only said those things because he was trying to convince himself of it.

It is pathetic, really. I really don't want to hear about it. I also really don't want to live in the same house with him still actively talking to her. I feel like if I can get to a place of acceptance plus not wanting him to move out, I could try the no R talks and avoiding listening to the verbal barrage of his lost true love, but I am not sure I am ready for more of the same. I kind of want to force the issue and have him decide to go.

Alison, Scout... I know. The six month thing was really gross. And he asked it AGAIN this morning! This way in a why don't we try a trial separation, that he thought space would help. he could live in the office or the basement. I said I didn't see the need if we were going to work on our M, and if he wanted space to carry on his affair he was free to go and I wouldn't wait. He argued with me on this a little, wouldn't it be better for me to have him go and test out this R and if he comes back he is choosing ME, not defaulting to me? I said it was all fine. Go. But I wasn't going to wait around.

Will write more later. Not sure how to handle him maybe moving to the basement.

[curtis7]

He is worried he is losing his chance at happiness. His emotional connection to her is as strong as ever (he says it never really went away, though he didn't think about her as much, but when he did it was strong).

He is spinning. He is totally freaked out that he is going to lose her, he said he never really let go of the idea that maybe they would work out in the end. He is worried that this is his one chance at being happy and he's been sad. Etc etc. That he had been trying but he doesn't know if he can anymore. He finally understands what betrayal feels like because of how he feels thinking about her being with someone else.

May, first of all to echo others, I’m sorry to read this update. They’re “trying” leaves a lot to be desired. My W is right where your H is at. You’ll be able to read about it in my next update.

I know how disappointed you must feel and you are questioning where to go from here. Take a deep breath and think through different scenarios. What can you live with? Which path is best for you?

Personally, I wouldn’t give him 6 months to find out if she’s the one he wants; however, my sitch is different because I’ve already lived through separation and my W being with 3 APs. I won’t stand for it anymore. If she walks out that door, she shouldn’t bother coming back. My life will move forward without her.

Your H’s clock has just reset to zero. That really [censored] after 5 months! A positive sign is that he came to you with the information and you didn’t have to discover his lies. A negative sign is that he still thinks he can have the fantasy of his AP and family life with you. That one chance at happiness is a devil for the WS to overcome, it keeps the addiction alive and well even during NC.

You remind a lot of Raine on this forum. Her H went through MLC for years. She suffered many setbacks as her H kept going back to the APs. Her patience was incredible, much like yours. I recommend that you read her sitch as it may give you some insight as to what to expect if you choose to continue with your H and ways to handle it. It will take a few days to get through it and give you some perspective before you decide what’s best for you.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=52728&Number=2306754#Post2306754

Stay strong May, I’m sure you’ll make a wise decision.

[may22]

OK, he just came home from the grocery store. Talked to her on the phone. She is willing to give up having children for the opportunity to be with him. (one of his three original reasons for ending the A-- the other two were doing what is best for the children (which we can still do S/Ded) and dealing with his mental health and anxiety, which couldn't go on at the time and he felt would just get worse before it gets better. Of course the other two reasons are still there but he's rationalizing them away.

He said he made no promises but it is clear he wants to go. He still wants my blessing. I said he can go but I won't be waiting for him... he said but you might still be there, right? I said I thought him leaving to be with AP was unforgivable and I would not want to be friends with him. He said he thinks I'm bluffing but is scared to call me on it.

I said, GO. He said he isn't going anywhere. He'll sleep in the office. He won't leave the house. He will consider moving to the basement but will need full access to upstairs, kitchen, etc. He said I can go if I don't want to live here. We went through a gross cycle of me pushing each other around with the assets and ended up back in the same place. He wants to have dinner together every night.

I really don't know what to do. If he is in a R with AP I honestly want him OUT OF THE HOUSE. He has nowhere to go. no good friends who would take his side on this. I want space and time and not have all his crap in my house. I can possibly see setting him up in the basement but it isn't very big, I don't see how we can get all his stuff down there and there isn't a full kitchen. He wants over the summer to wake up early to work, girls have distance learning from 8:30 - 11:30, he'd take them for the afternoons (hiking or whatever, but I imagine many days hanging out at the house during this COVID time). Can this possibly work? Can I really go completely silent with him still living here? I just don't understand how he can possibly think it is OK to still live here while having an affair!! (I guess b/c he already did it for two years!)

I don't think I can go through the same limbo as January. (Also I want to clarify something-- it is just now four months since he broke it off with AP, not five.) I can't wait around here and let him live under this roof and carry on a long distance affair with this person. But I don't know that I have a choice-- I looked into the legalities of this before and it just isn't possible.

Scout, there is a friend I could possibly go stay with and take the kids with me for a short time. I really don't want to leave this house though. I feel like it is just giving in. Maybe I need to look at why I feel that way. I feel like if he wants out of this M he should be the one to do the heavy lifting, not me.

Sage, she has been giving him ultimatums for the past year and a half. They broke up like 7 times because she "couldn't do this anymore" and then a few weeks or a month later they were back in touch. Yes, he's definitely freaked out that he thinks he might lose her forever... I don't think he ever really let her go in his heart or head during this whole time.

[Sage4]

We are different people with different situations, but living with someone who doesn’t want you is awkward and hard. I know that there are incredible souls (here’s looking at you, WF) who can do it, but I just couldn’t. Maybe you can take WF’s path and maybe you can take mine (get out if you are not willing to work in the M and be with just me). My H left voluntarily, although he’ll say I pushed him out by making him make a decision.

I know this isn’t DBing, and I too have been scared of ultimatums, but one way to get him out of the house is to instigate a D if he won’t leave. It sounds like that still may mean he is in the house for a while, but at least you will have an end date that you can rely on. And he will know that you are for real that you won’t wait for him. LH said on my thread that he would have helped his X pack her bags. And moved on with his great future. That struck me. As well as the understanding that living in limbo is more scary than D for me right now. But I had time living in limbo (separated) so I feel like I knew all my options at the point I gave H my mini ultimatum.

But as others have said, you do have time. You have had a rough 24 hours and you probably need sleep to support your sanity right now. You don’t have to make any decision right now, or tomorrow or even this week.

Keep posting, we are here for you, May. You are loved and worthy of so much more than you are getting at the moment.

[may22]

Hi Sage,

Thank you for the reply... I feel awful. I have been running on 1 hour of sleep and no food all day also, which I know isn't healthy. The poor children have been watching TV all day long while we talk and take breaks.

I did say I would file for D and borrow money from my parents to buy him out of the house, but it just devolved into a not-great conversation of arguing over how much the house is worth. And it may be pretty difficult in truth because our house is worth a lot of $. As of now he is going to start sleeping in the office, tell the kids because he has to wake up so early for work and doesn't want to wake me up.

All fall, I DB-ed (or tried with a number of slip-ups) after he told me in August he had an "emotional connection" with a woman, totally downplayed the time frame and said they were no longer in contact. Trickle truth all fall until the end of December when he told me the full scope. By December, I knew they were back in contact. I spent all of December getting myself prepared to tell him he needed to stop or leave, and the R talk that I initiated is when I got the full scoop on the A. We went through this whole same thing then and spent 6 weeks from Jan to mid-Feb in total limbo, going to a DC, him still in regular contact with her and completely paralyzed about making a decision. He had a trip to visit her city in mid-Feb and by the end of Jan had decided to break it off with her, which he did then.

So all to say... I have been here before. I feel like EXACTLY in the same place. (Yes, probably different for him than for me-- he now can say he "tried" for 4 months and wasn't able to get her out of his mind.) Also, news flash, they DID STAY IN CONTACT!! Nothing major-- they each called each other on their birthdays, four or five texts. He said he really needed to check up on her to see how she was doing and didn't consider it "contact" because it didn't mean anything. (OMG.) Also he argued that his April conversation with her was short and actually helped him to detach so it was good that he had that conversation... it was just this past weekend when they spoke that they both realized how much they still love each other. But. He never really did complete NC. I'm just so... disappointed more than anything else. I believed him that he was really trying. And maybe in his limited way he was. But when he never let her go in his head and heart, he never got to the place where he could look me in the eyes and say he believed we could make M2.0 work and was ready to try. That is something I really can't forgive him for. He says the children are his most important priority, except that he can't give up his drug/love.

Can I live through more limbo? His AP lives 5000 miles away. I don't even see how letting him go to her really does anything-- he won't really have the opportunity to experience a real R with her in that time frame and he said himself he doesn't think they would see each other at all. I feel like he's thinking of this more as a preparatory time to get me used to the idea of being separated from him so when/if she finally moves out here I'll be all ready to welcome her into our happy little family.

Do I want this person any more as my H? I think that is the bigger question right now. Scout, Alison, you're posing very good questions. I need to sit with this and go back through all my S/D scenarios. I'm POed because we have spent all spring on plans that are now out the window, including me going out on my own as a consultant and some major month-long family trips (which of course he thinks we are still going on together.)