a new normal

[may22]

So.... HELP.

Tonight, H came up to me with the Gottman book after the kids went to bed and told me he'd read the first section. He said he realized there were a number of things going on in our R from before that were bad signs, and that also he realized that he was more responsible for some of it, including the SSM, than he had said before. I was elated that he was reading the book and we talked a little bit about some of the things in it

Then he said, there is something I have to tell you. His AP reached out (via Whatsapp) to tell him she was moving on permanently, something along the lines of speak now or forever hold your peace. He said he sat on it for a couple of days and then responded to say OK, he understood. Then that seems to have started a texting conversation, him checking in with her about the protests, her saying she had had a lot of trauma recently, that led to a phone call in which she told him all this stuff that has been going on with her (pretty minor "trauma," feels like a ploy to get him to call) including the fact that she'd slept with someone. H was totally gut punched on this. We went camping Tuesday through yesterday, he didn't talk to her at all when we were gone, but he called her this morning and they spoke again. I guess she told him not to call her again, she was going to block his number, he asked her not to and then he told me all of this tonight.

He is completely back to where he was back in January. He is worried he is losing his chance at happiness. His emotional connection to her is as strong as ever (he says it never really went away, though he didn't think about her as much, but when he did it was strong).

When he told me this, I said OK, when are you moving out and took off my rings (his was already off from surfing this morning). He said whoa whoa, this is not what I'm saying right now, we need to talk this through together. This is exactly what I was afraid of when I told you but I am telling you, I'm not keeping it a secret, blah blah blah.

He is spinning. He is totally freaked out that he is going to lose her, he said he never really let go of the idea that maybe they would work out in the end. He is worried that this is his one chance at being happy and he's been sad. Etc etc. That he had been trying but he doesn't know if he can anymore. He finally understands what betrayal feels like because of how he feels thinking about her being with someone else.

I felt like I was right back to January. Tonight had marked 5 months since he broke it off with her. Part of me is incredibly angry that he let this happen. If he had blocked her like I asked him to in the first place, he'd still be NC.... and I know that he WAS letting her go, even if he's saying how he never stopped. He said talking to her again was like a drug for him. He didn't know if he could live without her. The words he was saying was all the same things he was saying back then, totally ambivalent again, talking about the fantasy D sitch, blah blah blah. And of course I had just recently gotten my hopes up that things were moving forward between us.

He said maybe he needs to just see if this would work out with her and asked me if he did and in six months it didn't work out with her, would there be any possibility of me still being willing to work on our M (acknowledging that was a crazy thing to say and also that he knew I couldn't predict a hypothetical like that). I said of course I don't know 100%, since I also always thought that I'd be done forever if I ever found out you had cheated on me, and I didn't.... but that this entire time, him actually leaving was the bright line for me. So no, I wouldn't be there. If he walked, that was it.

I said I can't live through this again. That I considered continuing having any contact at all with her to be a continuation of the affair. As far as I was concerned, he was in an active affair again and I wasn't going to live like that. He protested that a little, that they were just talking, but didn't argue too much since he was also telling me how strong his feelings were for her.

He said what if he slept in the office for awhile... I said not if you're in contact with her. He asked about the basement, I said same thing. Then we ended up kind of arguing about whether or not I would actually be a cold cut-off-all-unnecessary-contact exW, he thinks I wouldn't really do that, I said OK, that is fine if he thinks that. (I was really trying to stay away from things he could perceive to be threats since that has come up a lot in previous R talks from back when). He also said what about a trial separation where he wouldn't be in contact with her but lived in the basement. I said why? he said so I can show you how great D might be. (The whole D fantasy was dusted right off and right back to where it was last year.)

Anyway, complete re-run of conversations we had in January. I asked what was different in his three reasons for ending the A from before. he said nothing... well, maybe she would be OK not having any children, because she wanted to be with him so badly she would be willing to give that up (I asked if they talked about this recently and he said no, it was from back before he ended it). Also, that he had been trying with me for the past five months and he still was in love with her. He also said the last couple of weeks he's felt uncomfortable about sex with me. I said I didn't consider what we had been doing for the last five months really trying... we barely talked about our R or the A until just a couple of weeks ago, and we haven't been seeing the MC. Those are two big, important parts of actually working on our R and seeing if it could work. We had major issues that needed to be dealt with and being together but not dealing with them was not actually "trying" in my book. But whatever.

He brought up several different times just how badly he'd screwed up, that he had hurt and betrayed me, that he didn't see how that was fixable, that I could forgive him or he could forgive himself. Before he went to sleep (in our bed... I'm sitting up here at 3 am) he asked if we could continue the conversation tomorrow. he talked a lot again about me being his best friend, him needing to talk to his best friend about this. He feels I've dismissed his feelings for AP and been like, just don't talk to her for awhile and you'll get over her, and that he doesn't know that he ever will/can. He asked me how this happened, how he could have started a two (now a two and a half) year affair. All the same things he was talking about last week... and now colored by the fact that they were back in contact at this point and he is again in total limerence, exacerbated by the fact that she slept with someone else and also that he might lose her forever.

Sooooo.... I had in the back of my head the whole time this was happening all the posters here saying you have to completely let them go and fail for them to come back. He did ask me what I wanted, did I think M2.0 was really possible, I said yes (maybe not DBing but oh well)-- that it took time to get over someone, he clearly wasn't over her, that I did believe if we both wanted to build M2.0 and believed we could, we would be successful. But if he was always going to have her in the back of his mind as the 'what if/maybe in the future' then it would never work between us... but I did wholly believe that if he could let her go, that we had all the ingredients to have something great. But that was a decision he was going to need to make for himself. it wasn't something I could do for him. And if his choice was to go, he should go. But I wasn't going to give him my blessing. ( know, not DBing. I should have been packing his bags. But he doesn't actually want to move out. Even his no-longer-trying-with-me version is him just being in the basement. Which I don't want-- if he is going to leave, I want him OUT. Which then gets into the whole I can't actually kick him out part because he's a co-owner of the house... and in my state the judges normally won't force someone out unless there is a threat of violence. Apparently it is pretty common here because housing is so expensive for D-ing couples to live together until the very end.)

So a little unhelpful mind-reading right now... I feel like best case scenario, her outreach knocked him off balance, got him thinking about her again, combined with the recent wrestling with the gravity of the betrayal etc., fear it could never work out with me, fear of losing her for good pushed him right back to where he was six months ago. This is a hiccup, things don't progress in a straight line, etc. Like, why did he start reading the Gottman book in the midst of all of this? And, he told me about it (and I believe it, though I'm pretty pissed he let it go for a week without telling me... he says he feels like it is in real time and he didn't want to tell me camping and ruin the trip. The conversation started back up Thursday, Friday was my birthday, we went camping Tuesday and got back yesterday. He was kind of an a-hole camping). But I do know he could have not said anything and I wouldn't have known the difference, because I trusted him that it was over, especially with the way he had been talking lately.

Worst case scenario, this will be my life forever if we stay together, even if he wants to try again, never really truly moving past this. Second worse case scenario, this is it, he's gone. I am very sad etc etc (I am no longer detached, though I'm much better right now than I was earlier on, that is for sure) but I know I'll move on eventually and be fine.

FlySolo, if you're reading this... one thing I wanted to say to you is that I have always felt like if my H leaves, that is it. It would be too big of decision to ever admit it was wrong. That he'd just double down and smoosh away any qualms because he wouldn't be able to deal with making this big of an error. (Or, maybe he hits total rock bottom, in which case I can't imagine wanting him back anyway.) I see so much of my H in how your H behaves. So I have always erred in my sitch because of this towards not pushing that final step out the door. Also, I know this is different for many of you, but the final out-the-door move has always just been my deal-breaker. I could deal with the rest but having to tell the children we were separating is something I could never forgive him for.

From reading about Wooba and Pommy and Wayfinder and Scout and so many others on here, I know that my children will be fine. I just so, so much don't want it for them. I know that many people look back and are glad that they S because it wasn't healthy for the children to be in so much conflict, or seeing their mom in such a bad place... but the honest truth is it has never been like that with us. Our kids know nothing and are completely, blissfully happy. I'm one hundred percent confident of that. But reading your stories has truly made some of the fear around this part go away.

Thoughts on what I should do? Avoid R talks for a bit? Tell him he has to stop all contact with her or GTFO? Let him move to the basement? Are we basically rewound to January-- possibly a bit better because if he can take a step back from the overwhelming emotions he's feeling right now, he could see that things WERE getting better between us and also none of his decision-making factors have changed? Or possibly worse because he can tell himself he tried for five months and his 'emotional connection' to her was just too strong? Or who cares anyway if it is slightly better or slightly worse, it all is awful, I don't deserve it, and I need to buck up and move on even though it will devastate my kids?


I know one thing I will definitely do.... I am getting that Botox now for sure!