Still married couple from Scandinavia Part 2

[SteveLW]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the advice but I have to be able to tell you when I disagree with something. And I will push back until I am convinced otherwise. I hope that makes sense?

The only time I've basically said put DB aside is when we thought she had cancer. The way you read my posts simplifies what I say and I get that the information I give you is bits and pieces and not always the whole story. So completely understand how you would see it that way. I will re read my thread as well and see if I have missed clarifying certain things.

I do not agree the things I am saying aren't congruent but I know you and I have had our disagreements in the past on others things, similar to this. Us staying in touch after finding out the lump was benign was in no way "not DB:ing". For example, she would come over and pick up one of her boxes and move it to the other apartment, I could see how she uses those boxes as an excuse to contact me but there is nothing I could do about that. For weeks or even months, she would come over and pick up something small and stay and talk for a while. Even to this date, I am yet to contact her for any reason except for maybe a letter she has received in the mail. I have at no point suggested to meet up to do something. I have, however, accepted invitations to meet her at times and I have also declined multiple invitations to meet her.

What exactly do you feel would be the DB way of doing the above instead?

What I said was that if you really had no urge to get back together than the finalizing of D envelope would already been sent.

Ok, I understand but the word "urge" seems a bit strong to me but perhaps that is because English is a third language for me. No, now that I am seeing this side of her I am hesitating to send those in. Again, a bit too strong to say I expect some miracle turn around. If you have followed my thread and remember, it was after AS suggested that can wait that I decided to do that. That should hardly imply I expect a miracle turn around, don't you agree?

The only non DB thing that has been suggested her is to talk to her and I just wanted to listen to what everyone thinks about that. The way you write this

"she is showing interest, I can stop DBing!"

tells me that you think I've just forgot about the principles completely and let go. That is not the case. I haven't stopped DBing in every way. That simplifies what I say a lot. I am not planning on pursuing, I am not planning on courting her or showing any interest. A conversation would her could even be a statement from me, reminding her we can't keep hanging out like buddies.

I am and will be very skeptic. This is my life, and the pain I endured for that long, I don't take that lightly. I don't plan on foolishly running back to her arms because she shows some interest.

But I get why it would be perceived that way. And btw I appreciate the advice on setting a date for finalizing. That's not a bad idea.

Ben, all this is well and good. I am glad to see you can see how what your are saying wasn't lining up. I think you are making to fine a point on wording, but that is okay. Maybe that is part an parcel of English being a tertiary language for you.

However, I think you are over-confident in a lot of ways, and that is hurting you being able to see the reality of your situation. For instance, you come here asking about having a conversation about "us". That is inherently showing an urge to move things to the next level. I've had a lot of "us" talks in my 51+ years on this earth, and the ones I initiated were all to do one thing: get the R moved on or moved out.

You then talk about not forgetting DB principles, and then post an entire paragraph full of DB principle breaking:

For example, she would come over and pick up one of her boxes and move it to the other apartment, I could see how she uses those boxes as an excuse to contact me but there is nothing I could do about that. For weeks or even months, she would come over and pick up something small and stay and talk for a while. Even to this date, I am yet to contact her for any reason except for maybe a letter she has received in the mail. I have at no point suggested to meet up to do something. I have, however, accepted invitations to meet her at times and I have also declined multiple invitations to meet her.

You asked me what you think DBing would be different than this? EASY!

Setting a date for all her stuff to be out of your house. Not allowing her to use you as a storage facility. To come and go to get "a box" at time as she sees fit. Not be busy with GAL (since you claimed to be a GAL master earlier) that when she came to get her stuff you made it clear that she couldn't stay because you had things to do. By declining all requests of her to meet......or better yet doing as AS says (and I highly highly highly suggest you read AS's post very carefully, studying it, it is gold!) going dark on her. No where in DBing are you to be in that much communication with your WAW, who has moved out and is living on her own!

I also question the fact that you haven't contacted her for any reason. Maybe you have, but I do question if you are being truthful with that. I know how human nature works. I find it hard that she would be contacting you first as often and much as she has without you reciprocating and being the first reach out once in a while.

"Ok, I understand but the word "urge" seems a bit strong to me but perhaps that is because English is a third language for me. No, now that I am seeing this side of her I am hesitating to send those in. Again, a bit too strong to say I expect some miracle turn around. If you have followed my thread and remember, it was after AS suggested that can wait that I decided to do that. That should hardly imply I expect a miracle turn around, don't you agree?"

Here I argue that being her buddy, allowing yourself to be friend-zoned, not making her get all of her stuff out of your place, not sending the envelope in to finalize the D, all of that YES points to you, whether you want to admit it or not, hoping for a miracle turnaround on her part. Heck even the "she had a lump so I put aside DBing" is full of excuses. She has no family here. Etc. TOUGH! That is the choice a person makes when they decide to end their marriage to someone. That they will have to rely on themselves, or someone that isn't their ex-husband (or soon to be) to handle the lumps (sorry couldn't resist!) that life throws at them.

So just based on your posts since the one that that asked if you should have a discussion about "us", I would give your DBing a failing grade. I think it is R2C that likes to say that we DB for the rest of our lives. It isn't something that we pull out to try to save our marriage, and then set aside once we are successful or fail at that endeavour. DBing was not something that should have been set aside, even for her health scare. "Sorry to hear that, please let me know how it turns out."

Anyway, I do not remember butting heads with you in the past, but if we did I can see why. Your idea of DBing is flat-out wrong. Sorry to be blunt. But if you think anything you've done since she reached out to about the lump was solid DBing, I have no other choice but to tell you that simple truth.

So get back on the horse. Go NC as AS says. Words are cheap. Show her through your actions that you won't settle for the friend-zone.

I'll shut up now Ben. Sorry if I hurt your feelings ever, that was never my intent. My whole goal with chiming in to people's threads is to help them through to a healthy and happy future. Whether that future includes their WAS or not.

God bless.