a new normal

[curtis7]

Hi May, first of all, thank you for posting on my thread, I read through all of yours over the past couple weeks. You are in a much better position than me, but I agree that our sitches have some similarities.

My first impression was that you’ve had lots of R talks, implemented tough love after learning about the PA, then fell into several backslides. Your H was ambivalent after disclosure and didn’t think you could ever forgive him or desire would come back. You couldn’t let him go like most LBS...all too familiar for me.

There are some quotes that I’ve copied below which resonated and that I’ll comment on.

...if I could see into his head I would leave him in a second. That he is a bad person, he's done enough damage to our R that he can't imagine me forgiving him or him forgiving himself.

I thought this was one of the main reasons my W didn’t come back and give our MR another shot. However, I no longer feel this factored into the decision much at all anymore. It’s all about the AP and how they make the unfaithful spouse feel. That grip is so powerful and addictive and forgiveness either way pales in comparison. There are also factors of loyalty to the AP and justification to themselves that these choices were made because the LBS/MR was terrible.

I feel like he's deciding between pursuing a R with the AP together with the fantasy divorce idea with me vs. choosing a boring, passionless MR with me, plus losing out on the possibility of real romance/connection with someone else.

Same! My W believes in the fantasy where we have an open MR for her to sleep with her AP and we are friends/co-parents/business partners for her to maintain home life as a family. Sorry, that’s not a lifestyle for me, they can’t have it both ways.

I like the idea of keeping lists and deciding what can be addressed together, what needs to wait (or really don't need to be answered at all), and what should go to the MC. The MC suggested I give a list of the questions I have to H and he can say which he's OK to answer now and which he wants to wait on (since H apparently knows so much better than I do right now what is and is not in my best interest to know. This is making me INSANE.) TBH I haven't even told him the main questions I want answered-- they aren't really all that big of a deal-- like how did they communicate, did they ever meet outside her city, does he have any mementos/letters/photos/gifts of/from her, etc....And I don't really want him to do anything because I told him to...but I do eventually want him to do those things because he wants to himself, or cares enough about me to do it even if he thinks it is dumb, or is finally so embarrassed and disgusted at his own behavior that he wants to do whatever he possibly can to make it right.) So we are just tabling this for now but I did journal out all the questions I want answered at some point. I just feel like the longer it takes the more damaging it is on my psyche and ability to reconnect with H. But, pushing it now won't help anything.

I have been keeping a daily journal of my sitch since about a month after BD. I’ve been meaning to peruse it at some point and decide what events are important to me. There were so many occasions where I felt gaslighted and want to know the real truth to understand if I was crazy or not with some of my assumptions. I don’t want to know the intimate details. I learned many of those from snooping that I struggle to erase from my memory. I would like a timeline and how many OM there were during her GGW phase. I see that you’ve recently had this talk. I’m glad you he answered your questions and now you can move forward without bringing them up and asking again. Put them behind you, it’s in the past now, don’t let them inhibit your growth during R.

MC said look at it this way... you want these visible signs that he's turned away from the AP and is choosing you, like deleting his Spotify playlists, or her number or whatever. But what you really want is to know he wants to do that on his own, not that he's doing it because he thinks you want him to. And at least he's being honest about where he is in this journey. He just isn't quite *there* yet. H agreed, said he really knew he could do all the things I'm asking and say all the right things that I want to hear and probably make me happy. But he wouldn't honestly be there yet and he wants to do this all authentically. He said he loves doing things with me as friends and partners but he's struggling with the romance part. OK. All to be expected. Marathon not a sprint. And I signed up for this. Still would rather skip ahead to the part where he's begging forgiveness. But I also have to be OK with the fact that that may never happen, and come to terms for myself with how I feel or don't feel and what it means for how I want to live my life.

I want my W to delete every memory of her APs...contact in phone, texts, photos, any gifts/mementos left behind. I wish she would do it on her own out of love and respect without me asking. I don’t see my W begging for forgiveness, maybe years down the line. Just being friends with your spouse [censored]! I’m with you, this is a choice I made and have to accept she’s on a different schedule. I’m happy for you that some of the romance has returned to your MR as the two of you are putting in effort.

Maybe I won't be able to forgive him. Then what? I definitely know I can't if we don't ever talk about it or deal with the A. I know that I just need to focus on myself, what I can control, and when/if he's ready to accept the enormity of what he did and talk about it, we can start working on it. We'll get there when we get there, or we won't. And if we never do, then I have more decisions to make. I know he's on a different timeline than I am. Right now, all he can do is be present, be a good dad and partner. He simply can't yet deal with the rest of it.

Be present...ain’t this the truth in my sitch. Right now all I need is my W to have 100% NC with OM and be transparent and honest if any attempts at contact are made. Steve85 gave good advice on whether you get there or not. Set a date for yourself for the romantic relationship that you want to return. If that goal isn’t met, then make the decision on what you want to do, extend the date, ask your H for something different, end the MR, etc. This way it feels like you’re working towards something.

But I can't say we are in M2.0 until he can look me in the eyes and tell me he loves me, he wants to be with me-- not me the mom of his kids or me his best friend, but me as his wife and partner in life and all that entails. That he's willing to do whatever it takes and tell me whatever I need to know to move forward, and to face that part of himself that lied and cheated and was the exact kind of person he always despised. TBH, I think he's ready to put the AP in the past and focus on us. He's been doing that for awhile now. I just don't think he's ready to face himself.

I agree. I don’t think you can say you’re piecing until there is a firm commitment that leaves you convinced that your H wants MR 2.0 too and is willing to do the hard work and whatever it takes to make that a reality. I think your H can get there and face the enormity of his choices in time and with appropriate AP withdrawal.

I just want to warn you, that he is never going to say he's sorry exactly the way you want him to. He's never going to say I love you exactly the way you want him to. He never going to face his bs on your timeline or process it in the way you'd really like him to. It's all going to be on his time table and in his way at first. It’s a long road before he'll be ready to show and do things the way you'd like them to be, and then again he may never. This is a meet people where there at thing. He owes you a lot of explaining, and reassurances, and apologies, but there's a good chance all of that is going to come in his way and not yours. Are you going to be able to accept that? And the bigger question I have for you is, are you going to be able to set your pain, fear, anger, frustration etc. over all he's put you through aside long enough to see when he's giving you those things on his terms?

Great viewpoint from Wayfarer. Set your expectations aside. You might always feel there are unresolved issues surrounding the A and how he attempted to rectify those with you. Are you going to be able to accept that and leave it in the past? I think you’ve had your major questions answered by him already. I hope they were satisfactory for you. Take solace in the fact that he’s there, AP is gone, and the two of you are in MC taking steps towards R. You are on a good path May and building towards something many on this board don’t have the opportunity to experience. I think you’re doing tremendously well and will have MR 2.0 that meets both of your needs.

I enjoy reading your posts. You are several months ahead of me and it provides a glimpse of what could occur and what I might encounter in my sitch if my W ever gets there. You’re H is waking up and is asking himself the tough questions to move forward. His timeline is coming along nicely from what I read. Best wishes to both of you.