Is it surprising to you that the first thing MIL asked was if H hit you? That stood out to me. I have to say, this is the response I kept wishing I would get from my MIL--not the questions, but the shock and the hope. I guess my H must have explained it to her in such a way that it seemed inevitable (he's been unhappy for years is one of his lines), but it still blows my mind that she didn't express any shock to me.
H’s maternal grandfather was physical, so I think my MIL sees that as a possibility for H since he does have a volatile personality. Your H probably elaborated on the subject a lot more than mine lol. My H didn’t even tell MIL that he moved out. Which I would not be surprised if he later wants to blame me for disclosing this information to her.
Originally Posted by cardinal
Were you rattled at all internally here? Or you've heard enough of his ranting by this point to know not to give anything he says any significance?
I think I’ve learned to anticipate these sorts of words of threats from him. It’s easier to deal with these words when I remember that his words aren’t personal. So I wasn’t rattled, I was asking for clarification sincerely because I did not understand what he meant by “handling things this way.” It is still significant to me in terms of that I want to know what he means. So instead of ignoring his statement, I chose to ask questions. Although ultimately it turned out to be pointless anyway, lol. Maybe there is no way to understand what these WASes are thinking.
Hi Wooba, oh hugs to you. You handled all of that like a rockstar, such grace! I would not have been so level headed.
Is this the first time that D was discussed so solidly between you two? Did you get any warning that he was going to talk to his parents or your children about it? Or are you finding out how resolved he is through these interactions? Either way, you sure did an amazing job of handling your conversation with him.
Originally Posted by wooba
Threw a pity party for himself also...talked about how he hasn't been sleeping well, the process of writing the agreement is excruciating...etc. I acknowledged that it must be hard and thanked him for doing the grunt work
You are a saint. I am so sick of hearing how poorly H slept, how his anxiety is through the roof trying to decide whether or not to D me. How hard it all is for him. 'Really?' I want to say sarcastically, 'that must be SO hard for you.' You are able to THANK him. Well done.
I so clearly remember when he randomly told the kids that you guys were getting a D. He is in such a ridiculous fog. So glad you can emotionally disconnect from his confusion! I think there really is no way to understand WTF is going through their heads. They definitely don't know what is up!
I think asking questions is helpful. It also gives you a break from reacting/responding right away and puts the ball back in their court with more opportunity to understand (to the degree possible) what is going on in their heads.
HUGS. You're doing so well with all of this-- I'm continually impressed with the way you keep your wits about you and the incredible grace and class under pressure.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Is this the first time that D was discussed so solidly between you two? Did you get any warning that he was going to talk to his parents or your children about it? Or are you finding out how resolved he is through these interactions? Either way, you sure did an amazing job of handling your conversation with him.
D was never really discussed solidly between us...shortly after BD I initiated a R talk and he told me he was ready to D. I expressed to him that I did not want to divorce and I think we can work things out. Few months later he brought D up here and there, and those times I told him that there's nothing I can do if he wants to proceed. I'm not going to make things difficult for him. So it mainly has been him asking for financial info in preparation for D and I've complied to his requests.
He did let me know before he spoke to his parents. and of course used it against me and said that I didn't have the courtesy to do the same for him when I told my parents.
DB Principles aside, lately I've been feeling like I'm missing something. D has been brought up by H more times than ever, and I have been acting like a gray rock. I've been distant, avoidant, and cold.
Over the weekend, H came over to watch the kids for a few hours while I ran errands. God knows what happened, I spontaneously chose to do something different. I was upbeat and smiley. I pulled him aside in a corner away from the kids to talk about what S9 wants for his upcoming birthday. It was a nice 5 min convo. He did somehow manage to insert a Q about money there, but did not directly talk about D.
The next day he came over again to watch the kids, and this time H pulled me aside to continue the convo about S9's birthday present. In the middle of the conversation, I asked him, "I saw that you packed some of your workout stuff, you're getting back in the gym?" he said, "yea, I'm gonna try. Although this depression drinking certainly is not helping." I said, "That's great! You did lose some weight." and I touched his arm.
And during that conversation, I really looked at him. I looked at this man in a way that I have not in many months. Tears did not fill my eyes. Resentment did not fill my heart. There was no sorrow, no pain, no regret. It was an out of body experience, like I was seeing him in a different dimension. Knowing all the sh1t he's put me through, and anticipating all the possibilities he's done me wrong, I truly let it all go in those few seconds.
I guess the Q I'm asking myself is - if I direct good energy into our relationship now, will it ultimately push us to the right route together? Even if I know it's all probably just wishful thinking? Maybe this will just have to be another experiment....
I think the coming of summer has me spinning a little. Last summer I took the kids back to the states. H and I checked in with each other on the phone everyday, we talked on the phone everyday. It was when I came back that things started to fall apart. Incidentally, when we were apart was when I realized that some things gotta change. I was ready to come back and initiate a conversation about our R. Instead, I came home to a reality I was not expecting.
anyhoo, just some random ramblings. tomorrow is a new day. I will receive it with a new mind.
DB Principles aside, lately I've been feeling like I'm missing something. D has been brought up by H more times than ever, and I have been acting like a gray rock. I've been distant, avoidant, and cold.
This is not loving detachment. LBSs often get this wrong. Please read more on detachment. Google "self-differentation in marriage".
Originally Posted by wooba
Over the weekend, H came over to watch the kids for a few hours while I ran errands. God knows what happened, I spontaneously chose to do something different. I was upbeat and smiley. I pulled him aside in a corner away from the kids to talk about what S9 wants for his upcoming birthday. It was a nice 5 min convo. He did somehow manage to insert a Q about money there, but did not directly talk about D.
Nothing wrong with this exchange. Present. Upbeat. Pleasant. That is how you act with him.
Originally Posted by wooba
The next day he came over again to watch the kids, and this time H pulled me aside to continue the convo about S9's birthday present. In the middle of the conversation, I asked him, "I saw that you packed some of your workout stuff, you're getting back in the gym?" he said, "yea, I'm gonna try. Although this depression drinking certainly is not helping." I said, "That's great! You did lose some weight." and I touched his arm.
Question: Did touching his arm constitute pressure and/or pursuit? You should be framing everything you do and say to determine if it is pressure and pursuit. Remember your goal is ZERO, NONE, NADA pressure and pursuit.
Originally Posted by wooba
And during that conversation, I really looked at him. I looked at this man in a way that I have not in many months. Tears did not fill my eyes. Resentment did not fill my heart. There was no sorrow, no pain, no regret. It was an out of body experience, like I was seeing him in a different dimension. Knowing all the sh1t he's put me through, and anticipating all the possibilities he's done me wrong, I truly let it all go in those few seconds.
THIS IS WHAT DETACHMENT IS!! Well done. Remember, when you interact: present, upbeat, pleased. But his words and deeds should have no effect on you emotionally. That is detachment.
Originally Posted by wooba
I guess the Q I'm asking myself is - if I direct good energy into our relationship now, will it ultimately push us to the right route together? Even if I know it's all probably just wishful thinking? Maybe this will just have to be another experiment....
Direct good energy sounds a lot like pressure and pursuit. That hardly ever works. Almost never. WASs are like cats. The minute you reach out to them they retreat the other direction. If you sit still, indifferent to whether they want attention or not, usually they will approach you and jump up on your lap. When they do: upbeat, present, pleased. BUT NO PRESSURE OR PURSUIT! IE, the way you reacted to his going to the gym would have been great without the arm touch.
Originally Posted by wooba
I think the coming of summer has me spinning a little. Last summer I took the kids back to the states. H and I checked in with each other on the phone everyday, we talked on the phone everyday. It was when I came back that things started to fall apart. Incidentally, when we were apart was when I realized that some things gotta change. I was ready to come back and initiate a conversation about our R. Instead, I came home to a reality I was not expecting.
Expectations will almost always disappoint you. Expect the worst, hope for the best. He talked to you on the phone because there was so much distance. He felt no pressure and pursuit with a daily phone call. When you were present he started to feel pressure and pursuit. It oozes naturally from a LBS. That is why detachment is so important, because once you truly detach then that natural pressure and pursuit dissipates.
Originally Posted by wooba
anyhoo, just some random ramblings. tomorrow is a new day. I will receive it with a new mind.
Have you read DR? If so, have you read it recently? It sounds as if you are still reacting to his actions. He's distant so I am going to be distant, avoidant and cold. "Oh we had a nice convseration about gift for S. Then another about him going to the gym! Maybe I should start pressuring and pursuing!" Remember, what is intuitive usually works against you. The right approach here is to continue being detached. Continue to focus on yourself. How's GAL? How are your self-improvements (180s) coming?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
random thoughts. Can you turn a vision into a reality?
I had a fascinating discussion with a friend yesterday about this exact concept. She has been doing a lot of work on herself with all modalities (energy healing, IC, reading etc) and she has been doing an exercise where when she has a desire for the future, she writes a list of what that looks and feels like, in the present tense. As if it has already happened. It's easiest to start the statements off with "I am". I did this yesterday after our conversation and it was really cathartic and oddly empowering. After you are done writing them down, you visualise what each of them would feel and look like. Imagine how you will feel, what you are doing, your energy and that of the people around you.
There have been so many studies about writing down your goals and how people who do so tend to be the ones who actually achieve them. I am not suggesting that writing down 'get my M back on track' will necessarily lead to that outcome, but maybe once you put the intention out there, you start to unknowingly make subconscious decisions in support of that goal, which leads somewhere. In my case, I have framed my goals more around how I want to feel vs whom I want to feel them with, which has helped me detach from feeling that H is the only person who can fill my needs. I am doing the work now in preparation for my life partner. It might not be my current H and these exercises have helped me with detaching.
And during that conversation, I really looked at him. I looked at this man in a way that I have not in many months. Tears did not fill my eyes. Resentment did not fill my heart. There was no sorrow, no pain, no regret. It was an out of body experience, like I was seeing him in a different dimension. Knowing all the sh1t he's put me through, and anticipating all the possibilities he's done me wrong, I truly let it all go in those few seconds.
This is such a good description of this moment, wooba. Since I had compassionate indifference in mind as I started my new thread, it made me think. If, as steve says, that is what true detachment feels like, I am second-guessing that I've felt it for any prolonged amount of time! What I mostly do is detach from my H's actions/emotions, more getting off the rollercoaster. That seems more like detaching to protect me; your out-of-body experience seems more like a higher plane of compassionate indifference. And maybe the more you direct your energy toward it, it is something that will come and go and then settle as less out-of-body blip and more a dominant way of being?
Originally Posted by wooba
I guess the Q I'm asking myself is - if I direct good energy into our relationship now, will it ultimately push us to the right route together? Even if I know it's all probably just wishful thinking? Maybe this will just have to be another experiment....
That's how I'm thinking of good energy here. Not so much the kind that could be interpreted as pressure and pursuit, not the kind with expectations or even the motive of pushing you together, but good energy as in feeding your compassionate detachment, as in holding onto the feeling you had in that moment—not cold, but free of resentment. Maybe gray rock was a way you were protecting yourself that you can let go of more and more. You can be upbeat and smiley because you are finding joy for yourself, and that joy just happens to be freely given to H sometimes too, because when you are a joyful person, that joy is reflected at those around you. So this good energy is energy you direct all around (like the lighthouse beam! It's not just pointing at H.), and sometimes H happens to be in its path too. And you will be on the right route, and there is always the possibility that at some point H will be ready to join you on that route, too.
Here's the deal you know me. You know I'm no vet. I was ranted and raved against as I softened towards H. Behaved as a wife even though I had been fired. This is totally anecdotal. I can't tell you that anything will or won't work. But here's the deal. I'm not a sappy woman. I think we all know this. I'm pretty rough around the edges. There was very little begging on my part after BD. There was however a lot of rage and then a wall of silence. What I do know is when I was extremely hot(angry) or cold he matched my energy. He met anger with anger. Silence with silence. Distance with distance. He met happy with happy. Flirty with flirty. When I was walking on egg shells around him with the girls, he made our house feel like we had to maintain that. When I decided I wasn't going to live like that any more. That I wasn't going to hide from him and not live my life. When I decided that I would be kind, not placating or pandering, but kind to my husband whether I was fired or not, that's when things changed in my house.
Real DBing, as it reads in the book, is trying different paths on until you find one that gives you results. You gotta do what you gotta do my dear.
Thanks for all the feedback. Steve - nice to see you here!
Looking back, I would not have arrived at this point without really pulling back and going NC. I was upbeat and smiley before, but I felt like H took advantage of that so I had to set a boundary. and then there was all this gaslighting from H, and I did not want to engage him. That's when my gray rock formed. Maybe like cardinal said, it was kinda like a defense mechanism. And partly because I had lost hope.
I don't plan on pursuing H. I think of my arm touching (it was literally like ONE second okay Steve!! don't give me crap about this lol) sort of like extending an olive branch. My idea of good energy is like what Sage said, envision my intention (which I'm still trying to identify - something along the lines of compassionate indifference but I'd like something more concrete) and just sit with it.
wayfayer, you nailed it - I do feel the need to experiment. I still have no expectation, but I am a little hopeful. I guess it's just bugging me because I feel like I have no evidence to back up even the tiniest bits of hope. Where did my hope even come from? Maybe I just feel more relieved now that things are out in the open with my parents and my inlaws. The less I need to pretend, the more I feel liberated. and that makes me happy.
essentially nothing's changed, just my thinking. and maybe that is everything?
