Doing my thing & keeping a smile

[cardinal]

Hi, wooba! exchange to me seems pretty straightforward—he seemed to already feel you didn’t want to go to his parents, and you confirmed it. You showed appreciation for his food delivery. IMO, I think your gut is right: what would additional explanation do? Probably not much. If he was warming up, something like this shouldn’t deter him. If it does, he’s not ready. In the grand scheme of things, it is probably a blip, and as LBS we are more prone to over-analyze every interaction. But I get that you worry about H—what his capacity is for self-harm, the lows of his depression... which only makes it more difficult to step back from that caretaking impulse. which, as you said on my thread, can be so ingrained. Especially when this is a pattern:

But still, there were many moments of me thinking/asking "Why are you so sensitive to every little thing and why do you always interpret it as I don't love you enough?"

I had a similar experience in my M. I wish we (old H, not alien) could have a convo about this now with a C, because I am now understanding that part of this was on me (to try to understand this with H, to not always react defensively), but that it also seems likely this was tied to self-esteem issues I (probably H too) didn’t realize H had, probably also tied to what seems increasingly like depression.

Anyway, what I’m thinking about is how that dynamic can also train us to analyze every interaction, plus we think about DB principles, plus you’ve got your H’s mental health in mind, plus you’re supposed to be keeping yourself in mind. It can feel like a lot. Like may and Pommy suggested, this is a small step in showing him what D means. You won’t be visiting him with his parents. You weren’t cruel about it, just matter-of-fact.

[may22]

I think you did the right thing. Like Cardinal says, if it scared him off he wasn't ready. I think it possibly gave him a little dose of reality here... wow, she really isn't going to come... I have to go on my own... what will I tell my parents... I mean, I'd be spinning about it too if I were him. That doesn't mean it is your job to fix it for him and make him feel better in the moment by explaining or soothing or deciding you'll go anyway. Let him think on this.

[Traveler]

I said it very matter of factly, “No, I don’t.”

Hi Wooba, your simple and clear "No" is a great response! I agree there's no need to explain--especially since it makes the interaction more complicated, and he didn't ask for an explanation. You accepted his gift of food, presumably thanked him, didn't stop him from joining family activities, and complimented last week's food when asked. This sounds like a positive, low-pressure interaction--and one that didn't send you spinning!

The "No" leaves it to him to explain the situation to his mom (a natural consequence), and he had the (no-need-to-point-out) alternative of attempting to patch things up with you if he had preferred.

[wooba]

You guys are the best. I’m happy to report that I didn’t lose sleep over this issue. It was a good chance to practice my standard-nonemotional- matter of fact -gray rock like response.

Last night out when the kids asked what we’re having for dinner, I said “something daddy made.” And then S9 said, “it’s like daddy is not even part of our family anymore.” He then added, “I’ve been thinking about this and wanted to say it, but I didn’t want to make you mad.” I then reassured him that I would never be mad If he wants to share his feelings with me.

I then said to the kids, “you guys probably have your own ideas of what a father should be like.” S11 then said dad is just working so much. I said, “Daddy is not always working. But he is only capable of doing so much right now- cooking and bringing food for you guys, pumping up the tires for your bikes.”

I wanted to say more and ask more questions. But felt like it was best to leave the convo at that.

[wayfarer]

You guys are the best. I’m happy to report that I didn’t lose sleep over this issue. It was a good chance to practice my standard-nonemotional- matter of fact -gray rock like response.

The gray rock thing had me rolling. OMG. I've worked hard on my flat affect but my face usually betrays me. So good on you my friend.

YouLast night out when the kids asked what we’re having for dinner, I said “something daddy made.” And then S9 said, “it’s like daddy is not even part of our family anymore.” He then added, “I’ve been thinking about this and wanted to say it, but I didn’t want to make you mad.” I then reassured him that I would never be mad If he wants to share his feelings with me.

Aww wooba, you're such a good boy mom. This has me tearing up a lil bit.

YouI then said to the kids, “you guys probably have your own ideas of what a father should be like.” S11 then said dad is just working so much. I said, “Daddy is not always working. But he is only capable of doing so much right now- cooking and bringing food for you guys, pumping up the tires for your bikes.”

I wanted to say more and ask more questions. But felt like it was best to leave the convo at that.

This was probably best. The kids seem to be pretty open with you. They'll come to you. And you'll know when it's time to say more and ask more if they don't.

You're just sounding so calm and grounded lately. It really helps me relocate my zen when I'm having a bad day/moment and wondering what I'm doing and why. I just have to remember regardless of outcome, I'm here doing this because I want to be calm and resolute in the end no matter what. So thank you for being that

[wooba]

Aww wooba, you're such a good boy mom. This has me tearing up a lil bit.

You know, I've had quite a few of these moments recently...when S9 said that to me in the car it was a weird feeling like... I felt like the old me would cry about it if I had heard him say that 6 months ago. But I don't get that sad feeling anymore. It's real acceptance now and there was no sadness. S7 the other day wrote in his school journal "daddy sometimes comes home....and sometimes doesn't." I feel like an outsider would read that and feel horrible for the child. But in reality S7 was not even sad about it, he just wrote it matter-of-factly. That was eye-opening to me because I realized that something that sounds sad may not really be sad. We all interpret things in wildly different ways. something that seems so "obvious" is actually wrong.

You're just sounding so calm and grounded lately. It really helps me relocate my zen when I'm having a bad day/moment and wondering what I'm doing and why. I just have to remember regardless of outcome, I'm here doing this because I want to be calm and resolute in the end no matter what. So thank you for being that

Aw thank you. Yes, the easy way is usually not the right way. being calm and resolute is not easy. I used to try to follow "if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all." Now it's more like "If you have something to say, zip it and sleep on it." lol.

[may22]

Wooba, your kids are so lucky to have you as their mom. You're amazing.

Really glad you didn't lose any sleep and are in your zen space. I need to get back there. I like the "if you have something to say, zip it and sleep on it." i need to practice that Any newbies reading this thread, that is SUCH GOOD ADVICE!

[wooba]

thanks may, I always enjoy your words of encouragement!

Update:

So H told his parents over the weekend that we are divorcing. In H's words, "I told them that it was MY decision."

Apparently he gave them no details because my MIL called me immediately after to ask wth is going on. My MIL is not the brightest person in the room, but she has a good heart. Her first question to me was "Did H hit you??" I said no. "Is he having an affair???" I said I don't know. She went on and on about how shocked she was and how they still hope that we will be able to overcome our problems and work it all out. I told her not to worry too much, I still love them and I will still visit them with the kids on my own. Overall, I'm glad that things are out on the table. My MIL was really upset over the news but she wasn't hysterical.

Back to H. He came over to watch the kids while I had an engagement, when I came back he wanted to talk again.

He was talking a lot. I let him talk. mostly how he's drafting up the d agreement and something about taxes in the agreement (??? I had no idea what he was saying). Threw a pity party for himself also...talked about how he hasn't been sleeping well, the process of writing the agreement is excruciating...etc. I acknowledged that it must be hard and thanked him for doing the grunt work. He asked what happens now if we're visiting my parents in the city. "If you guys are there one weekend, and I can come and also help out with the kids....am I supposed to get a hotel now?" (SERIOUSLY, why would he even think that he'd still be welcomed there???) I said "Yes. We are no longer a family unit. Just like I would not come along with you to visit your parents, you will not be staying at my parent's when you go visit. You can get a hotel room, and if you want to take the kids with you to stay at the hotel, I'm open to that too."

more babbling from him. and then this:

H: "I am trying really hard to be civil, but if you keep handling things the way you've been doing, you will not like how things turn out."
Me: "I don't understand what you mean, will you clarify?"
H: " You told your parents about us without notifying me or telling me. and YOU told the kids. What am I supposed to do with the kids now? Am I supposed to have a talk with them about it or something?"
Me: "I told the kids what?"
H: "THE DIVORCE!"
Me: "YOU told them."

and at that instant I realized there's is no point continuing the conversation. There is a thin veil of civility and nicety on him, but the inner illogical, angry, hurt child is itching to come out.

I said, I don't want to argue about this. It's getting late and I need to prep dinner for the kids.

Thankfully he walked away.

Oh, and he was going to leave a bottle of whiskey here again. When he was leaving I handed the bottle to him and told him bring it with him. I don't want it here.

[Traveler]

Wow, Wooba! That was a difficult interaction well-handled.

[cardinal]

The vibe I get from your responses: cool, calm, and collected. I'm always impressed by your ability to exude these qualities, wooba!

Apparently he gave them no details because my MIL called me immediately after to ask wth is going on. My MIL is not the brightest person in the room, but she has a good heart. Her first question to me was "Did H hit you??" I said no. "Is he having an affair???" I said I don't know. She went on and on about how shocked she was and how they still hope that we will be able to overcome our problems and work it all out.

Is it surprising to you that the first thing MIL asked was if H hit you? That stood out to me. I have to say, this is the response I kept wishing I would get from my MIL--not the questions, but the shock and the hope. I guess my H must have explained it to her in such a way that it seemed inevitable (he's been unhappy for years is one of his lines), but it still blows my mind that she didn't express any shock to me.

H: "I am trying really hard to be civil, but if you keep handling things the way you've been doing, you will not like how things turn out."
Me: "I don't understand what you mean, will you clarify?"

Were you rattled at all internally here? Or you've heard enough of his ranting by this point to know not to give anything he says any significance?

H: "THE DIVORCE!"
Me: "YOU told them."

and at that instant I realized there's is no point continuing the conversation. There is a thin veil of civility and nicety on him, but the inner illogical, angry, hurt child is itching to come out.

I said, I don't want to argue about this. It's getting late and I need to prep dinner for the kids.

Well done, wooba! This is the kind of inner calm and strength I need to draw on. You recognized there's no point in trying to change his reality; it seems he was trying to draw you into his emotions with that convo, and you simply removed yourself from it instead. I really, really hope I can do this the next time my H's inner illogical, angry, hurt child is on display. Stay calm, don't play into his feelings, remove myself from the situation.