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She said, the familiarity crept back in during the recent times where we got together again, and things quickly reverted to how they'd always been. I (Joe) would make comments under my breath. (I will have to watch out for this. I didn't know it's even a thing I do.)


I believe familiarity is the key word in this situation. Joe, take this as a clue to things you really need to work on. I don't mean work to get her back. I'm talking about making needed improvements on yourself, so that you will make a good partner in your relationships. It's hard to see ourselves through someone else's eyes. If you are going to help yourself, you've got to leave your W alone and let her live her life, without your interference.

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W said I wasn't a bad person, just a bad husband.


Yeah, I know him..........a real nice guy.


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Without excusing myself, in some ways I feel like someone being charged with another guy's crimes. I don't even remember some of it.


Oh come on! That's carrying a bit far, feeling as if you're being charged for another guy's crimes? I can't remember some of the time lines when I was wayward, but I'm still just as guilty for my actions. You are hurting and mostly feeling what you feel is the injustice of your W not giving you another chance......again. I'm sorry you are in pain, Joe, but you've got to stop making exceptions for yourself. You spent so much time trying to be heard and justify yourself during the MR, that she felt unheard and invalidated as a woman/wife. So now, if you expect to have any future happiness, you need to own your crimes, whether or not you feel like the same man. Some day, she might be able to forgive you, but it doesn't mean she'll want to live with you again. She wants to move on without you, so leave her alone.

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But I know I've been different, with a better heart, but it hasn't been seen. I can't tell her about it. If it's not even seen am I just fooling myself?


tired She doesn't care, Joe. It doesn't change how she feels. Frankly, your words sound pretty much like the guy she described in the MR. You have been different for how long? You've had a better heart for how long? Since October? What did it take for you to open your eyes? Losing her? You are feeling sorry for yourself b/c she hasn't seen this change? Let me tell you something I've seen. You've been too focused on doing what you believed would get her back, to hear much of what's said to you. She's had years with the nice guy who was a bad husband. So, no.......you can't tell her how you're a changed man! A wife, even a WW, knows when there has been an authentic change in the man. Even if she saw an authentic change, there is no guarantee it will heal all the years of hurt. Do you get it? No matter how much you change, it doesn't undo the past. She said there had been too much hurt. So, respect her enough to stop pressuring her.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!