This is Oceangrl! I'm here!

[wooba]

I’ll be Neffer.

Hey OG keep shining, darkest before the dawn, keep the focus on you. Keep DBing!

Lol!

You crack me up LH lol

Oceangirl- put the past behind you. You’ve made a lot of mistakes (btw, you are not the only one responsible for the failing M) but you still have so much time ahead of you. It is never too late to start loving yourself. But the first step is stop beating yourself up for past mistakes. Really think about Steve’s question - what do you want? Read that part over and over again. You have to find your self-worth and self-love first before even thinking about having others love you. None of what your H says is acceptable by any standard. It is crazy. Why can’t you see yourself leaving that behind? How is he adding value to your life? Tough questions and maybe it will take time for you to figure it out....hang in there. Maybe in time you will have more clarity also. Hugs.

[Oceangl]

OG,

The fact that he is turning down sex is very bizarre unless he's got something going on on the side. My guess is he is emotionally immature and expects to get the same feelings from your marriage as he did the affair. Affairs are secretative, exciting and dangerous and the feeling you get is like a drug. You guys have been together for a really long time so the reality is that he is not going to get that high he is looking for right now.

You really have two options:

1. Wait it out and do 180s, detach and GAL and see if he comes around. Most people suffer immensely in this scenario because they are watching their spouse like a puppy dog at a table for waiting for scraps.

2. You separate making clear that you need some time to figure out what you want and that you will be treating this like a real seperation. You don't have to date if you don't want but you need to make it clear that it's an option.

Statistically speaking men are less happy then women after divorce so you have that in your favor.

It's very important that you stop trying to argue your point and validate his feelings because you are in no way going to be able to convince him of anything right now.

Good luck!

I think you have really zeroed in on it, whether I like it or not, this is what I am facing. I spoke to my sister on the phone last night (my family has been so supportive of him even though he really didn't deserve it). She told me she has seen me work so hard on myself and the marriage for the past three years. She literally didn't know what else I could do. She thinks he is trying to force me to file by making it miserable for me so he doesn't have to be the "bad guy." He has a serious fear of being the bad guy.

And I hear you, I need to stop arguing my points. It doesn't matter anyway. When this started, he would make a complaint about me/the marriage and I would see his point. I would think, "okay, uncomfortable but fair. I need to work on that." Now, he is just making stuff up. Like throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. His last complaint was that if he wants me to do something (something big, not the dishes lol) I have to think about it. Um, okay? I am a processor, and usually I say yes. He is looking for things that are wrong.

For a guy to commit to no sex, that is a big red flag as you guys have pointed out also. Especially when in spite of our problems we had a good sex life before that. It was so weird and sudden. He was taking testosterone as a supplement and stopped taking it -- I assume to make sure to lessen the temptation.

[Oceangl]

I’ll be Neffer.

Hey OG keep shining, darkest before the dawn, keep the focus on you. Keep DBing!

Lol!

You crack me up LH lol

Oceangirl- put the past behind you. You’ve made a lot of mistakes (btw, you are not the only one responsible for the failing M) but you still have so much time ahead of you. It is never too late to start loving yourself. But the first step is stop beating yourself up for past mistakes. Really think about Steve’s question - what do you want? Read that part over and over again. You have to find your self-worth and self-love first before even thinking about having others love you. None of what your H says is acceptable by any standard. It is crazy. Why can’t you see yourself leaving that behind? How is he adding value to your life? Tough questions and maybe it will take time for you to figure it out....hang in there. Maybe in time you will have more clarity also. Hugs.

You are right. I do have to keep working on loving myself and these questions. I think the hardest thing for me is that family is such a strong value and rudder in my life. I hate divorce. I hate the ripple effects and what it will do to my kids, especially my little son who has confided in me in tears that he is terrified we will divorce. They don't deserve this pain. I believe marriage can be happy if two people can be less selfish and put their relationship first.

But there is so much i can't control, and his choices is one of them.

[Oceangl]

I would really lover for neffer to weigh in. As a former Wayward Husband, he might have some good insight.

I don't know who this is lol, but I would love to hear from a former WH!

[Pommy99]

She thinks he is trying to force me to file by making it miserable for me so he doesn't have to be the "bad guy." He has a serious fear of being the bad guy.

My H has this deep guilt as well, about hurting me and the children and I think that is one reason he still remains in a state of confusion. He was rubbish at covering his tracks with his "friendship" with OW, in spite of all the gaslighting, telling me that my concerns were all in my head. His IC (that he saw twice) told him he probably deliberately left his ipad lying around in the hope that I would uncover his lies. I remember one time I found something and H said "I guess you can kick me out now". I do think in some ways he actually wanted me to make the decision for him. I didnt. And he's still dithering - even though he's left, said he wanted to come back, then changed his mind, he's still telling the kids he REALLY wants to make things work between us. Your H sounds as dithery as mine OG!!! {{{Hugs for the weekend!}}}

[Oceangl]

She thinks he is trying to force me to file by making it miserable for me so he doesn't have to be the "bad guy." He has a serious fear of being the bad guy.

My H has this deep guilt as well, about hurting me and the children and I think that is one reason he still remains in a state of confusion. He was rubbish at covering his tracks with his "friendship" with OW, in spite of all the gaslighting, telling me that my concerns were all in my head. His IC (that he saw twice) told him he probably deliberately left his ipad lying around in the hope that I would uncover his lies. I remember one time I found something and H said "I guess you can kick me out now". I do think in some ways he actually wanted me to make the decision for him. I didnt. And he's still dithering - even though he's left, said he wanted to come back, then changed his mind, he's still telling the kids he REALLY wants to make things work between us. Your H sounds as dithery as mine OG!!! {{{Hugs for the weekend!}}}

Thank you for the hugs!

I would add to that that I think we are reminders of their bad choices and the worst of what they are capable of. If they aren't able to work through it in a healthy way, we get the blame. My husband's logic seems to be that once I am gone there is no more reminder of the worst choices of his life.

I do think he wants me to make the decision for him. And now I feel backed into a corner. We have therapy tomorrow afternoon virtually, I think if am going to be brave enough to call him out on his sabotaging during the session. I don't expect it to go well.

I am almost at the point where I want to say, "You can choose to be my husband, or you can choose to divorce me. I don't want to be nothing more than a roommate."

[Pommy99]

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I am almost at the point where I want to say, "You can choose to be my husband, or you can choose to divorce me. I don't want to be nothing more than a roommate

Hey OG, this prob needs a vet’s response. To me it seems you are handing control to your H. But perhaps you need to take control and frame this with a consequence that you are willing to follow through on. What is the consequence? ? That he has to leave , or that you leave, or that you will take steps to end the marriage? I totally get your frustration , and I was in that place with my H, and a couple of times when I found out he lied to me I told him to FO out of my life. But I wasn’t clear enough in my boundary or the consequence. He stayed a bit longer , until ultimately he decided to leave . I don’t know how I should’ve handled my sitch but I see you being in the same mindset I was and all I know is that asking him to make a choice puts it all back on his terms. I honestly don’t see your H ready to be your H right now unless you command some respect by telling him the consequences of his choices and being prepared to follow through. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t been such a walkover and had enforced my boundaries a lot sooner.

[LH19]

OG,

I would communicate it in a loving way that you love him and adore him but you won’t be in an open marriage.

This way you are not telling him what he can or cannot do. You are communicating to him what you cannot and will not live with.

Before you to this you have to be willing to end the marriage or separate if he chooses not to end the affair.

[Oceangl]

We have therapy virtually today. I went to my parents’ home last night, and my sister was there. They all have had enough with my H and the way he treats me. They want me to start seeing lawyers to gather information as they don’t see him changing and are tired of seeing my situation. I won’t make a decision for anyone else, but it did catch my attention to how awful this has been. In therapy today I am planning on just....laying it out. That I feel like he is sabotaging any chance of a connection, and that he has made a decision for the two of us that we will be celibate roommates.

It’s so odd because he has plans he made with me today to go get things for our puppy and the sink that needs to be fixed....like we are a normal couple. I think it’s just a product of his cake eating. And I’ve put up with it hoping I can nice him into loving me again as steve85 would say.

Pommy, right now I am preparing to have a consequence. He can choose one of those things or move out and one of us will start the D process. I will if I have to. I don’t think I can take the emotional neglect anymore. I don’t want a divorce. But right now how he treats me is killing my spirit. And I’ve been doing this for 6 years. The positive is, with all the DBing and therapy, I feel like I’ve become a pretty great version of myself. I believe my happiness can depend on me and I can fill my own holes.

I am scared of the future. But trying not to make a decision based on fear.

LH, the affair he was in is over, I don’t think he’s in a new one. I think he is committed to his new fantasy woman and life. I could always be wrong. But that’s what I’ve put together so far. For him, the grass on the other side is pretty green.

[LH19]

OG,

Then change it to being in a marriage where you are just living as roommates.