Here is where you may need to check yourself. Because a lot of us LBSs are willing to take any attention we can get from our WAS, even negative. It is a vicious cycle:
1. The LBS finally decides to work on giving time and space, and backs off. 2. The WAS feels something has changed, and is out of their control, and wants to find out what is going on, so they start a MR discussion. 3. The discussion ends up being the WAS giving their litany of reasons why they are leaving, again. 4. The LBS is thrilled that the WAS is taking an action, even thought they've heard it all before. 5. The LBS engages with the WAS too much, instead of just listening and validating, which reassures the WAS that the LBS is still attached, and in their control. 6. After the discussion the LBS starts feeling bad about themselves again because the WAS made it clear that they still intend to leave. The LBS is upset that the same complaints were voiced again. The LBS also feels guilty for not applying DB principles and vows to do better. 7. Go back up to #1.
Um, yeah. I know that cycle.
I know all his complaints well. I could give his speech. Right now he says he can be roommates with me, he doesn't have to file. He feels like I should be grateful because he isn't sleeping upstairs, etc. He says if I want, he can just stay with me until the kids are gone as he doesn't believe we will be happy with just the two of us.
There's something fishy about that to me. Is it about the pains of child support? Our youngest is 11. It's hard for me to believe he is going to go without sex (by his choice) until our youngest is 18. I sure as heck don't want to.
So I am working on the DB techniques I need to get better at for my own survival and value. I just don't want to be "roommates" for seven years. I think that s*cks. Right now I keep a clean house, take care of kids, take care of my body and keep it fit, support his career and hobbies. He says he likes everything about me, my personality, is attracted to me, but just doesn't feel that emotional connection. From my viewpoint, he works hard to make sure there is no connection. 24 years, but whatever.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
Here is where you may need to check yourself. Because a lot of us LBSs are willing to take any attention we can get from our WAS, even negative. It is a vicious cycle:
1. The LBS finally decides to work on giving time and space, and backs off. 2. The WAS feels something has changed, and is out of their control, and wants to find out what is going on, so they start a MR discussion. 3. The discussion ends up being the WAS giving their litany of reasons why they are leaving, again. 4. The LBS is thrilled that the WAS is taking an action, even thought they've heard it all before. 5. The LBS engages with the WAS too much, instead of just listening and validating, which reassures the WAS that the LBS is still attached, and in their control. 6. After the discussion the LBS starts feeling bad about themselves again because the WAS made it clear that they still intend to leave. The LBS is upset that the same complaints were voiced again. The LBS also feels guilty for not applying DB principles and vows to do better. 7. Go back up to #1.
Um, yeah. I know that cycle.
I know all his complaints well. I could give his speech. Right now he says he can be roommates with me, he doesn't have to file. He feels like I should be grateful because he isn't sleeping upstairs, etc. He says if I want, he can just stay with me until the kids are gone as he doesn't believe we will be happy with just the two of us.
There's something fishy about that to me. Is it about the pains of child support? Our youngest is 11. It's hard for me to believe he is going to go without sex (by his choice) until our youngest is 18. I sure as heck don't want to.
So I am working on the DB techniques I need to get better at for my own survival and value. I just don't want to be "roommates" for seven years. I think that s*cks. Right now I keep a clean house, take care of kids, take care of my body and keep it fit, support his career and hobbies. He says he likes everything about me, my personality, is attracted to me, but just doesn't feel that emotional connection. From my viewpoint, he works hard to make sure there is no connection. 24 years, but whatever.
First, as a guy, emotional connection is rarely a requirement for a man to have sex. In fact, we men use sex to create that emotional connection. So I think you are onto something being fishy. Considering his history, outlined in your signature, I think there is an A going on. Whether it is just an EA right now, or has been a PA in the past, obviously no one knows. But as a guy that has a fairly high libido, yeah I cannot imagine him being completely without a sexual outlet at all, and agreeing for it to be that way for next 7 years. I can also tell you, as a guy that has had EAs himself, that child support absolutely is a consideration in how those EAs are handled. Or even how a PA would be handled based on my knowledge of other people's PAs. So I think you are spot on and right to feel something is fishy. And that this lack of emotional connection is an excuse he is using.
So my question is....what does Oceangl want? Yes I know, you want your marriage to be whole and better and for your husband to be committed to it and working on it with you. Okay, so you can't have that because a basic rule in life is we only get control of one human-being, and we don't even get the choice of which human-being that is! Because it is ourselves. So if you can't have the ideal, what would you next like? A sexless, affectionless, loveless marriage for the next 7 years until the youngest is 18 and your WAH/WH can leave scot-free with no financial constraints? Or do you want to be valued, loved, cherished, honored and appreciated? To be fulfilled intellectually, sexually, emotionally, and spiritually? Do you want to continue with the way things have been for 6+ years (based on his 2 year PA)? Or do you want to find your own value, move forward your life, and not let your life be dictated to you?
I just quoted someone in Kitcat's thread that pointed out to her that no matter what her shortcomings as a W were, she did not deserve to be treated the way her WAH was treating her. I repeat that here and now to you Ocean. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS!!!
Last edited by Steve85; 05/14/2008:08 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So what kinds of things can you do to make yourself more emotionally attractive?
Right now everyone is limited.
But, you state you discuss his hobbies. What are yours?
I would suggest joining a book club. When you can volunteer somewhere. Do outings with just you and the kids. Don't invite him. Don't be rude and if he wants to join in fine but he has to be the one sniffing.
I'm sorry there seems to be no forward motion happening... but time may be your best ally.
OG-- don't do anything because you think it might be attractive to him. Do what you want to do, for yourself.
He is not a whole person right now. To be frustrated because you took too long to heal, to not want to be reminded of his own failings-- that is not someone who can be a true partner. That is just selfish and wrong. (And I'll note here that this is one of my fears with my H, that he'll never be able to confront just how low he sank and the consequences of those actions. But I have decided that while I'll give him time on this, we absolutely will deal with it all. That is a boundary for me. And if it takes too long and I don't see meaningful change, I am out.)
Can you stop the R talks? It seems so useless to just have to listen to his same old garbage. That feeling of being able to give his speech for him... I know it and it is aggravating. Just step out of the cycle. Detach, don't worry about what he says. Focus on yourself.
I remember a couple of months ago you went to the beach, right? And found peace in yourself without needing to get it from him? (Sorry if I'm mixing you up with someone else)-- can you cultivate that feeling?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
First, as a guy, emotional connection is rarely a requirement for a man to have sex. In fact, we men use sex to create that emotional connection. So I think you are onto something being fishy. Considering his history, outlined in your signature, I think there is an A going on. Whether it is just an EA right now, or has been a PA in the past, obviously no one knows. But as a guy that has a fairly high libido, yeah I cannot imagine him being completely without a sexual outlet at all, and agreeing for it to be that way for next 7 years. I can also tell you, as a guy that has had EAs himself, that child support absolutely is a consideration in how those EAs are handled. Or even how a PA would be handled based on my knowledge of other people's PAs. So I think you are spot on and right to feel something is fishy. And that this lack of emotional connection is an excuse he is using.
So my question is....what does Oceangl want? Yes I know, you want your marriage to be whole and better and for your husband to be committed to it and working on it with you. Okay, so you can't have that because a basic rule in life is we only get control of one human-being, and we don't even get the choice of which human-being that is! Because it is ourselves. So if you can't have the ideal, what would you next like? A sexless, affectionless, loveless marriage for the next 7 years until the youngest is 18 and your WAH/WH can leave scot-free with no financial constraints? Or do you want to be valued, loved, cherished, honored and appreciated? To be fulfilled intellectually, sexually, emotionally, and spiritually? Do you want to continue with the way things have been for 6+ years (based on his 2 year PA)? Or do you want to find your own value, move forward your life, and not let your life be dictated to you?
I just quoted someone in Kitcat's thread that pointed out to her that no matter what her shortcomings as a W were, she did not deserve to be treated the way her WAH was treating her. I repeat that here and now to you Ocean. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS!!!
After the ideal, I want to be happy. I don't want to live in a state of emotional neglect. I don't want a roommate instead of a husband, I don't want to live in a sexless marriage. I definitely want to be valued, loved, cherished, honored, and appreciated. I know something needs to change, and I am finally understanding that I deserve better than this.
I don't know what that means now. I don't know what to do next. I grew up with this value of family, and I my heart aches at the thought of my marriage ending and what that means for my family. But I can't live like this.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
What happened to your friend he has the PA with? Is she definitely out of the picture?
She lives in another state. He has been here for all of quarantine period. He does go there for work travel. They work in the same company still, but no longer in the same department. She reconciled with her husband and her husband knows all about the affair. From what they have said (FWIW) they have boundaries with each other. I have not had contact with her, nor do I wish to, for a long time.
He leaves his phone and computer out. When he was in the midst of his EA/PA with her, he was secretive and would stand in our yard at night on "work calls" for hours. They would travel together and I was way too trusting to see what was going on.
He doesn't seem to be doing any of that now, and I don't know when he would have an opportunity to meet up with anyone. As far as strictly an EA, he is on work calls during the day, and most of the time I can hear them. At night we have dinner as a family and he watches tv with me. He is not on his phone.
This doesn't mean he isn't involved with anyone, but I suspect he is more committed to the idea of his future as a single guy and what he can have. I'm not willing to snoop through all his stuff, but I don't know what exactly is going on. He cut me off for sex in October and won't let me go near him. That alone is weird. He has a definite emotional wall and won't initiate anything, w the exception of a friendly hug. We are doing MC right now at the request of our church leader. Our counselor is really good, and I really like him. We will make amazing headway in a session (right now virtually) and right after H will reiterate his divorce thoughts or undo the progress somehow. He has a friend who recently became divorced (his friend did not want the divorce, his wife did) and met someone really fast at church. I feel like shortly after that my husband cut me off. So did he see hope in that? Possibilities? Granted his friend is about 15 years younger.
KitCat -- thanks for your thoughts. I am trying to become emotionally attractive for me.
May -- Yes, that was me! I do enjoy the water so much. I am trying to find some things for me. I really try not to have R talks, they just seem to come with therapy once a week. I do have to learn how to do things I want to do, and focus on my happiness. I feel like I do well, and then something good happens, some little crumb, and it becomes undone. But geez, 24 years. I feel such deep sadness like I did something wrong, I failed. Thats a hard feeling to get past.
me: 46 h: 49 m: 24 T: 27 DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019 Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
The fact that he is turning down sex is very bizarre unless he's got something going on on the side. My guess is he is emotionally immature and expects to get the same feelings from your marriage as he did the affair. Affairs are secretative, exciting and dangerous and the feeling you get is like a drug. You guys have been together for a really long time so the reality is that he is not going to get that high he is looking for right now.
You really have two options:
1. Wait it out and do 180s, detach and GAL and see if he comes around. Most people suffer immensely in this scenario because they are watching their spouse like a puppy dog at a table for waiting for scraps.
2. You separate making clear that you need some time to figure out what you want and that you will be treating this like a real seperation. You don't have to date if you don't want but you need to make it clear that it's an option.
Statistically speaking men are less happy then women after divorce so you have that in your favor.
It's very important that you stop trying to argue your point and validate his feelings because you are in no way going to be able to convince him of anything right now.
