Thanks!!! I needed to read this. I'm no where near here yet... but this is where I need to be at.
It helps reading it. I too hope I get to the point of just not paying attention to H when he is talking which seems so counter intuitive to even Sandi's rule of - when they talk look at them and listen.
You sound great. Really great. Calm, compassionate, focused on what is important, not letting the other stuff get to you. I'm glad you had a great Mother's Day... hearing those little people planning a secret surprise is the BEST, isn't it?
I do have one question. Why are you going with him to visit his parents? Can't he do that by himself? It just seems like this might be one of those opportunities for him to start to understand the things that will change when you D. (If it were me, because I lack self-control in this area, and my H came by to talk to me about splitting finances and then said let's go visit my parents together, I KNOW I would be like h3ll no, at least inside.)
I mean, he still has a pretty sweet setup. Has he started doing his own laundry yet?
Hang in there!!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I do have one question. Why are you going with him to visit his parents? Can't he do that by himself? It just seems like this might be one of those opportunities for him to start to understand the things that will change when you D. (If it were me, because I lack self-control in this area, and my H came by to talk to me about splitting finances and then said let's go visit my parents together, I KNOW I would be like h3ll no, at least inside.)
You’re right, I’m still mulling over this. On one hand I love his parents and I do want to see them also. On the other hand, I don’t want to be part of his lie and play house with him. I thought about telling him to take the kids and visit his parents. I’ll just stay put. He can say whatever he wants to say to them about my absence. I think that I should not be the one to break the news to his parents. Am I right on this? Because 1) I don’t want his parents to have heart attack 2) his emotional state seems unstable for such a shock from me.
When he came by last night, I thought about his visit too. I’m leaning towards waiting until I see D papers to draw the line- keys back, don’t come by to hang out with the kids, take the kids to your place if you wanna spend time with them.
In my case because my MLCer does have suicidal tendencies, I want to be as gentle going about things as I can. Or maybe there is no difference??
You’re right, I’m still mulling over this. On one hand I love his parents and I do want to see them also. On the other hand, I don’t want to be part of his lie and play house with him. I thought about telling him to take the kids and visit his parents. I’ll just stay put. He can say whatever he wants to say to them about my absence. I think that I should not be the one to break the news to his parents. Am I right on this? Because 1) I don’t want his parents to have heart attack 2) his emotional state seems unstable for such a shock from me.
Yes, I think it is his deal to tell his parents. You might want to separately converse with them (I had several long talks with my H's mom after H disclosed the A to her and the possibility he was leaving, which I'm very glad about as I think his side of the story was like "we've grown apart, things hadn't been good for a long time, I met someone who really loves me (implication being May does not)" and when I clarified my stand she was an amazing support person for me to talk to). But I think this is his deal and not your job to clean up his mess or explain anything away to his family. Also, they'll always be your family because of the kids, so I'm sure you'll have plenty of opportunity to see them in the future.
Originally Posted by wooba
When he came by last night, I thought about his visit too. I’m leaning towards waiting until I see D papers to draw the line- keys back, don’t come by to hang out with the kids, take the kids to your place if you wanna spend time with them.
This sounds like your boundary, then, which is good. Also for him to get all his stuff out of your house and start washing his own clothes!!
Originally Posted by wooba
In my case because my MLCer does have suicidal tendencies, I want to be as gentle going about things as I can. Or maybe there is no difference??
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by being gentle. Being as nice as possible until he sends the D papers and then you go dark? I almost feel like making sure he is aware of what the consequences are of his decision so it isn't an enormous shock might be the gentler route... which would mean NOT going with him on this visit would actually be kinder as it will give him some better sense of what he is really doing. I think what you want to avoid is everything is hunky-dory till the day you get the papers and then his life plunges into the abyss-- I could imagine that being pretty difficult, especially knowing that he was responsible for all of it.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by being gentle. Being as nice as possible until he sends the D papers and then you go dark?
Lol yes that was sort of my plan. Not so much being as nice as possible, I just haven’t started any R talk.
Originally Posted by may22
I almost feel like making sure he is aware of what the consequences are of his decision so it isn't an enormous shock might be the gentler route... which would mean NOT going with him on this visit would actually be kinder as it will give him some better sense of what he is really doing. I think what you want to avoid is everything is hunky-dory till the day you get the papers and then his life plunges into the abyss-- I could imagine that being pretty difficult, especially knowing that he was responsible for all of it.
We have not had a R talk since two months ago he came by in the middle of the night out of nowhere and started to pick a fight with me. I would have to initiate such a talk to lay things out and tell him that 1) we won’t be friends after D 2)he won’t be welcomed here 3)everyone will know. (Leaving his parents to him). Part of my hesitation is I don’t know if I want to aggravate the situation without something written. Right now he’s being on the generous side, agreed to most of my demands financially (verbal). My fear is that he will take that away out of spite if I confront him with the reality.
Wooba, it's such a difficult situation but I'm inclined to agree with May - let him live the life he thinks he wants right now. I dont think you have to initiate a R talk, but rather go at it bit by bit - explain that because of the current situation you are not comfortable in playing happy families and taking the trip to his parents.
A trip on his own, with the kids, to see his parents, without you sounds like the perfect opportunity for him to have a reality check about what life means without you in it. If anything you are being kind to him, giving him what he thinks he ultimately wants - that isnt antagonistic, hostile or unfriendly. You are so accomodating in letting him come and go as he pleases and he really needs to begin to understand that things wont continue on his terms for evermore. You wont always be at his side - I'm not sure if he realises that.
Hugs Wooba
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Reading another poster's response triggered this trip down to memory lane....
Before BD, before discovering DB/learning about validation, love languages and all that good stuff, one main complaint from H was that I didn't show enough affection. I by nature am not a touchy feely person (both verbally and physically), but over the years I think that I've taken baby steps of improvement. But still, there were many moments of me thinking/asking "Why are you so sensitive to every little thing and why do you always interpret it as I don't love you enough?" We joked that emotionally H was the woman in the relationship and I was the man (women are traditionally seen as oversensitive and insecure - which I disagree with the idea now). I probably did not validate as much as I should have. I was so tired of defending myself when accused of "negligence," and I was at a loss of what exactly he wants from me.
Intimacy wise, H wanted it ALL THE TIME and at times it was exhausting. We've talked about whether his high drive was normal, and he said that everybody's normal is different. he is the way he is.This was also a point of contention between us and I remember H would say things like "Where else am I going to get it from if I don't get it from you?" or "I know my drive is hard to keep up but I've already tried to withhold it" etc. I've even questioned whether H has sex addiction. Many times he'd say that he needs to be taken care of and sex makes him feel better.
Having three kids almost back to back also did not help with the situation. My failure was not being able to turn mommy mode on and off. I had lost myself in the daily grind. Of course, I also know that I'm not 100% to blame. H did very little outside of bringing money home. And I have almost accepted that I am supposed to carry all the burden of everything else because I'm a SAHM. My value lies in the endless pit of contribution that I thought I could fill by myself. I was not "happy" in the M either. But I never thought of quitting.
After BD, H has said something like "I will never be able to give him the level of affection that he's looking for" and "our drive is just not compatible, he will always want more than I can give."
Anyways. No out of the world revelation today, just something I feel like sharing. I wanted H back desperately right after BD, but it wasn't all sunshine and roses before then either. "What value can he add to my life now?" is the Q that's been on my mind lately.
Having three kids almost back to back also did not help with the situation. My failure was not being able to turn mommy mode on and off. I had lost myself in the daily grind. Of course, I also know that I'm not 100% to blame. H did very little outside of bringing money home. And I have almost accepted that I am supposed to carry all the burden of everything else because I'm a SAHM. My value lies in the endless pit of contribution that I thought I could fill by myself. I was not "happy" in the M either. But I never thought of quitting.
After BD, H has said something like "I will never be able to give him the level of affection that he's looking for" and "our drive is just not compatible, he will always want more than I can give."
Anyways. No out of the world revelation today, just something I feel like sharing. I wanted H back desperately right after BD, but it wasn't all sunshine and roses before then either. "What value can he add to my life now?" is the Q that's been on my mind lately.
i could’ve written all this myself. It’s so common to be stuck in the identity of “mum”, not just because of any instinctive behaviour to meet the needs of the child, but also because a child’s love is unconditional. A child will love you no matter what. Did you feel like H loved you unconditionally? What is your LL? Acts of Service? I felt incredibly lonely being a mum, H did little to make feel loved. Sure he provided for the family, but he only showed affection or gave me attention when he wanted sex. And I used to hate that, and it made me resent him, but I never understood why I felt that way. Like you, I was unhappy but I never walked out. For better or for worse. Now I have more understanding of how a marriage should work, and it’s frustrating to see how and why it fell apart, and to have the desire to do my part to fix it, but not have that cooperation from H.
I’m sorry that he feels you are sexually incompatible. This is the only reason my H has for leaving, and he openly admits it. I struggle to see that as a valid reason to end a marriage, but it is a sad fact for many and that is his truth. It really drives home my lack of understanding of the male species, but I respect that this is his need above everything else - I just don’t agree that you walk out on your kids because of it.
What did you conclude about the value that H adds to your life? I have been wondering the same thing. I have always fought for the love and attention of my H, and I’m still fighting. And I ask myself why I think he can meet my needs and those of the family. I honestly d9nt know the answer!!
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Did you feel like H loved you unconditionally? What is your LL? Acts of Service? I felt incredibly lonely being a mum, H did little to make feel loved. Sure he provided for the family, but he only showed affection or gave me attention when he wanted sex. And I used to hate that, and it made me resent him, but I never understood why I felt that way. Like you, I was unhappy but I never walked out. For better or for worse. Now I have more understanding of how a marriage should work, and it’s frustrating to see how and why it fell apart, and to have the desire to do my part to fix it, but not have that cooperation from H.
I knew I was deeply loved by H. He is a person full of hurt from past history. I know how hard it was for him to open his heart to me and let me in. I thought he would love me unconditionally. But even I didn’t love him unconditionally. It is much harder than it sounds. I think ultimately the depression took him over (I didn’t realize) and he lost bits of his old self of the years. We were struggling to connect emotionally in the last few years.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
What did you conclude about the value that H adds to your life? I have been wondering the same thing. I have always fought for the love and attention of my H, and I’m still fighting. And I ask myself why I think he can meet my needs and those of the family. I honestly d9nt know the answer!!
Currently it is close to zero if not negative, lol!!!
H stopped by and dropped off some food he made. That’s his thing for the last few weeks - cooking at his place and bringing food over in containers.
When he brought up visiting his parents again, (so far I haven’t explicitly said I wouldn’t go, instead I told him he can take the kids to visit them) he asked me ,”so I guess you don’t want to go?” I said it very matter of factly, “No, I don’t.”
The rest of our little interaction was normal. He asked if the food he made few days ago was good and I commented that it was good. Then as the kids and I are finishing up a movie while eating dinner, he left abruptly without saying goodbye.
The next few hours I found myself back in familiar territory - asking myself all these Qs: Was I being too rough by saying I don’t want to go visit his parents? Did I hurt his feelings? Should I text him and clarify that I do want to see his parents but I just don’t feel comfortable playing house with him? Did I put up too much of a front that it came off as aloofness? Is he warming up by bringing food all the time, but I’m pushing him away?
Well, in the end I stopped myself from texting him to explain anything further. I just know it wouldn’t help.
Maybe it doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things. I need some validation here...I hope I did/said the right thing??
